Nintendo: Wii U GPU "more pronounced" than CPU, but CPU not weak

Developers have praised Wii U's memory in the past, but some have wondered if the console's architecture focuses too much on GPU. Shigeru Miyamoto, Satoru Iwata, and Genyo Takeda all responded to this topic at the Q&A session of Nintendo's investors meeting.

[Bumpmapping]

@ThaBlackBaron-If you think Wii U is that powerful your on crack seriously of course it has the edge over PS3/360 but that's like comparing Wii vs PS2/Xbox/Gamecube/Dreamcast.

Wii U is nothing more than a beefed up PS3 also that monolith trailer looked awesome great graphics for sure nothing jaw dropping about it in terms of graphics.

[PopRocks359]

Yeah, nothing at all neat about high end and detailed 3D graphics in a large scale open world game. /s

[LOL_WUT]

PopRocks to the rescue!!!!

Of course Nintendo wouldn't say that their hardware is weak especially when talking to investors that'll be suicide.

Lets just let the games speak for themselves so far nothing on the Wii U screams next-gen.

[wishingW3L]

the X trailer was large scale but not exactly "high-end"... Especially when at the very beginning of it there are a couple of texture pop-ins and visible draw-distance issues. And not to mention that the frame-rate looked low, like the image was about to break apart.

[BullyMangler]

so the gamecube gots an exclusive game called Resident Evil 1 Remake, and theres yet to be a more Astonishing looking game than that .. the wii has about 2 times more power than the cube . so what does the cpu power of the wiiU matter if the 360 nor ps3 doesnt even have a game that looks mightier than Resy 1 remake for the Cube??

mua haa . Nintendo gots all fan-boys and girls by the what? . thats right, by the nippLes .

[Yodagamer]

Actually Lol_wut they have done that before both on the wii and the ds, and those where their most financially successful platforms

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

lol, is bulltmangLer the Ninty version of Killzoner99?

[Awesome_Gamer]

It looks good but not half as good as Watch Dogs or GTA V, for example.

[PopRocks359]

@Awesome_Gamer

Funny thing about Monolith's history. Once upon a time, they provided a teaser trailer for the first Xenoblade that looked "good, but not great" for a Wii game. Eons later, the trailer for the full experience came out and it was stylistically change and graphically superior to how it looked previously.

The footage we saw in the X trailer, as good as it was, seemed pretty rough. Who is to say it won't see a similar visual upgrade when it is closer to release?

EDIT: By the way, the game is still open world complete with massively sized gargantuan beasts, running off of Wii U hardware and as far as performance goes, it was running fairly smoothly. I find that very impressive.

@wishingW3L

That's your opinion, which is fine. But I think you missed the point of the argument. It's a fairly nice looking and detailed style; and it's unfinished footage to boot. Now throw in that this is an open world experience with huge maps and monsters. Now let's fast-forward to when this game is more finished and refined; you don't expect this to look even better?

I'm not necessarily saying that the final product will blow people's socks off, so much as I am saying anything is possible.

[wishingW3L]

but PopRocks359 you're the one claiming high-end when there's nothing high-end about it. Is just some kinda nice art-style with the mountains and some pretty colored sky-boxes. =/

[LightofDarkness]

@Bullymangler:

The game's backdrops are pre-rendered, just like the original, except with some advancements like reflections and particle FX (for candles etc). If you run the game in an emulator, you'll see that all the backgrounds remain in 480p while the character models and other assets are much sharper (this actually makes the game look pretty terrible in 1080p, sadly, as the "environment" is upscaled and muddy looking).

[AsimLeonheart]

We will believe the "large scale open world" games on Wii U when we see them running on it. Right now there isnt a single game on Wii U that can prove that it is significantly more powerful console than PS360. Moreover, the hardware specs arent very "next gen" either. Just looks at the specs of PS4/Orbis and Durango. Now those are REAL next-gen consoles which will able to run games like Watchdogs and Star Wars 1313.

[Gamer1982]

We hardly know anything about the X game right now so I dont think we can rightly use that as part of an argument. Even so also we dont know if the final games gonna look anything like that (anybody remember ff13?). As for WiiU IF it was just the console without the new pad it would be a current gen console a gen 3 console but its got the new pad which is new and some could even say nex gen. So its more like a 3.5 gen console.

The thing you have to remember here is Nintendo audience is NOT the 360/PS3 audience. I'm not saying they wont buy one but they will buy it as a second console. Nintendo has there own fanbase and as much as they would like there consoles to compare to the upcoming playstation G4 and Xbox G4 it was never gonna happen. Nintendo like being behind as it keeps costs down and in this case they had to thanks to that pad.

[ABizzel1]

The Wii-U CPU in it's bare bones is 3 Wii CPU's combined (making it Tri-Core) with nearly 2x the Clock Speed, with a contemporary boost to cache memory. The 360 is also a Tri-Core CPU, but the Wii-U is better than the PS360 at streaming things down it's 3 cores at much faster speeds.

HOWEVER, the PS360 has dual / multi-threading capabilities that the Wii-U CPU doesn't have allowing them to outperform the Wii-U CPU in most regards when all three are used to their maximum.

That is why developers say the Wii-U CPU is underpowered. It's like a highway with a speed limit of 80mph with only 3 lanes (Wii-U), vs. a highway with a speed limit of 60 mph with 6 lanes (360), and a highway with a speed limit of 70mph with 7 lanes (PS3).

Yes the Wii-U highway is technically faster, but when it comes to moving traffic it's easily outperformed, because you can move a larger amount of traffic on the PS360 than you can the Wii-U which is somewhat of a bottleneck for the GPU.

Starting 2014 Wii-U games will start to look better than PS360 games in nearly every regard. PS360 games will run 720p @ 30fps while the Wii-U version runs 1080p @ 30fps, simply because it has a better GPU, and more memory to work, but as everyone has said the Wii-U is not "technically" that far above the PS360 to warrant a "next gen" label.

The Wii-U is basically an overall 50% boost in total performance to the PS360 (1.1 / 1.5 depending on what you prefer). But IMO there's nothing wrong with that. WHat's wrong is that they went with these underpowered parts when they could have easily gone with AMD's A-8 APU Llano, and still been able to sell the Wii-U at the same price and have a console that truly out performed the PS360 as well as being technologically advanced enough to receive ports of PS4 and Xbox 1080 since it would be a low-end PC. On top of that it would have made development so much simpler. But Nintendo just doesn't get it when it comes to tech, and they must be buying those Power PC 750 CPU's for dirt cheap since they were made in 2000 and used in the Gamecube, Wii, and now Wii-U.

[MasterCornholio]

"WHat's wrong is that they went with these underpowered parts when they could have easily gone with AMD's A-8 APU Llano, and still been able to sell the Wii-U at the same price and have a console that truly out performed the PS360 as well as being technologically advanced enough to receive ports of PS4 and Xbox 1080 since it would be a low-end PC. On top of that it would have made development so much simpler. But Nintendo just doesn't get it when it comes to tech, and they must be buying those Power PC 750 CPU's for dirt cheap since they were made in 2000 and used in the Gamecube, Wii, and now Wii-U."

Wow i never knew that.

[chronoforce]

the CPU can execute Instructions out-of-order if i'm not mistaken,that might help to avoid the system from being bottle necked

[Theyellowflash30]

@ABizzel1

But didnt the PS3 and Xbox 360 overpowered CPUs cause the Red Ring of Death and Yellow light of Death? Don't you think Nintendo was going for a powerful system thats doesn't overheat as well?

[TruthbeTold]

Definitely out of order instruction is important. Like Takeda said, the cache size and quality upgrade is hugely important as well, since they work hand in hand. Less error, more streamlined function, and more commands that after their execution have to wait for manifestation are set aside without 'blocking the highway'. So while the above highway analogy is a decent one, it doesn't tell the whole story. The best way I can add to that by using the same analogy is to say that if the 'number of lanes' is correct, then PS360 Highways have far fewer on/off ramps, less optimized point a to point b distance, and more traffic jams than the Wii U.

[ABizzel1]

@Master

That's the biggest problem I have with Nintendo right now. I love Nintendo to death, and many of their IP's. The SNES was my first console, and I even went back and bought the original NES just to play many of those games, but Nintendo is giving a "C" effort at best and hoping to make money off of an "ignorant fanbase" (ignorant is defined as lacking knowledge in general or a specific area of interest).

@chronoforce

That's true, but it still doesn't prevent the CPU from being bottle-necked. It's a workaround that let's the Wii-U get around some of it's faults, but when it comes to pure data crunching it's going to noticeably struggle. Battlefield's environmental destruction, Advanced Enemy AI, God of War like Scale, Loading (the problem with the Wii-U's menu) are all things that are going to be difficult on the Wii-U, and the only way around it is if the GPU can cover some of the task which it should, but then that pulls power away from the GPU, and still won't help with loading speeds, AI, and more.

@Theyellowflash

No the CPU's didn't cause those problems. The 360 was because of "faulty builds" and poor cooling, and the PS3 was because of of the same reasons. It has nothing to do with a more powerful CPU, as long as the proper measures are then deaths will be minimized, but some errors are just bound to happen, then things are made in a warehouse where millions are being made by a workers and a machine. Somewhere someone or something is not going to apply enough coolant, or not screw something in enough, and those few consoles will be affected.

People purposefully overclock their CPU's which causes sever overheating, but they take the proper cooling components to keep it running well at those high heats for years.

The A8 Llano would have done nothing, but giving the Wii-U the push it needed to stand above PS360, and more importantly it could have came out in 2011 with a 2 year head-start vs. 2012 with a 1 year head-start and a weaker console.

[Ulf]

I find these limited-understanding CPU and GPU commentaries utterly fascinating.

[younghavok]

so umm... theyre already selling the console at a loss, and your saying they shouldve added more expensive parts and keep at it the same price?

[ABizzel1]

@younghavok

There's no way Nintendo is selling the Wii-U at a loss. The only way it's selling for a loss is if they included employee pay, R&D, shipping cost, manufacturing cost, and as much other stuff they can stuff into the budget. The actual console has been broken down and everything used to build the Wii-U only cost $180 including the controller.

Nintendo is spilling BS, which is another reason why I'm fed up with their business model (not their games).

The AMD A8 APU is are $90 that covers the CPU and GPU, and 2GB of DDR3 RAM is $10 - $15 on average. That's $105 for the main components of the a more powerful Wii-U. Add in the tablet controller. $155, add in the other components the Wii-U would cost $255 AT MOST, and that's from a consumer standpoint.

So show me exactly how Nintendo is losing money on each console sold. They're not.

Just like they claimed they were losing money on each 3DS being sold at a $250 price. That was BS as well. The 3DS was broken down to barely be over $100 for all it's components.

Gamecubes were selling for $99 dollars and was selling even near the end of it's lifecycle. The Wii used the same components in the Gamecube, but was selling for $250 for years.

Nintendo doesn't sell anything for a loss. They're loss is most likely coming from game development since they're finally in the HD era and have to pay for larger teams to develop these games, but the problem again is Nintendo didn't want to hire teams with 50+ people working on the project. They'd rather keep the same small teams and make them work harder, which is why there have been no huge exclusives since the Wii-U launch, and Nintendo is just getting around to getting more developers on board.

Nintendo's business is completely backwards. They do just enough s#!t to get by, and throw it to NIntendo fans like it's gold, and it's wrong as far as console go.

[AdvanceWarsSgt]

^^^^^Nintendo never claimed they were losing money on the 3DS when it was priced at $250. You just made that crap up.

[ABizzel1]

@AdvanceWarSgt

I meant $170 for the 3DS. I must have been anticipating getting to the Wii's price next. At $250 they were selling the 3DS at an insane overcharge, on par with apple (2x as much as the systems actual cost).

[user3915800]

Takeda: Wii U is a machine that has a lot of performance compared to its power consumption. Its just a design where the memory is more stressed.

So, Wiiu lack memory?

Miyamoto: For High End graphics there is a hurdle
so, weak GPU?

Iwata: Every gaming hardware has its specialties.
So, you already know this console to be weaker?

Well. is not going to matter to me, I dont care for graphics much nor how fast a console is, its what kind of game will give me the most joy and big N will most likely continue to be my first choice for first party games, followed by sonys library and online gaming with xbox. I win...

[lilbroRx]

You just distorted each one of those comments that you took out of context to mean near the opposite of what they were stating.

The comment about "High End" graphics was related to development difficulty of using the high end graphics that the Wii U is capable, not
a weak gpu. He was saying that the GPU is so strong that they needed to higher specialists to make use of it.

The comment about memory was that they had comparatively "more of it" and that it was the focal point of the design, not that they have less.

The comment about "gaming specialties" means that the console was designed to to emphasize specific types game designs and devlopment styles moreso than others.

You should become a journalist. Your seem adept at twisting words to mean different things than what is said.

[WrAiTh Sp3cTr3]

Yeah, the only hurdle, which you've misunderstood and misinterpreted, is that Nintendo devs aren't use to developing graphical intensive software so they've had to teach their staff how by bringing in 3rd party support. It's right there in the article...

[Ck1x]

Just wow! I have no clue how you were able to twist such plain statements as these... That is just scary really
Now do you consider the sky to be blue or is it some other color the rest of us aren't seeing? I have to say that the gaming community extremist are no better than religious nut jobs. That are willing to lie, cheat, steal, kill or blow things up for the sake of their beliefs. I'm not even directing this comment at one specific group, because I think they're on all sides of the fence here. But its comments like the one above that show peoples blind intent, rage and disdain for a specific company that is just sickening. Whether it be against Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo it doesn't matter. When people would rather believe a lie before the truth, then there is no hope for reason at all in a conversation.

[zillanoir]

Now think about this it looks good now but you obviously know much more polishing processing issues will occur between now and its release which is probably 1st quarter of nxt year or 4th of this yr.
Folks forget these multiplats have been ported in 6months with no optimization hardly. Score that between its counterparts which took up to 3 years.

[OhMyGandhi]

Since the wii IS a gamecube with motion controls, it's more like comparing the wii to an n64. :)

[zeddy]

honestly this conversation is irrelevant. the ps4 and 720 will blow the wiiu out the water.

[1upgamer99]

So The Last of Us looks great, the Wii U is more capable than that, and the 360 could not pull it off at all. How good do you need your games to look. Also it was stated about developers not having time to really even work with Wii U till awhile back, and to get to know the hardware. Who cares what a system that will not be out for 8 months can do. I care about what I will be playing, and how I will be playing in the next 8 months. Also Nintendo stated in this article they have basically graphics specialist involved to help developers make games look great. So I guess it all goes back to the fact Graphics are all that matter, and who has a bigger one than the other guys. All I know is PS2 kicked the Cube/Xboxes ass and it had allot less power than either of them.

[JP1369]

PopRocks359-

In regard to the new game by Monolith, there's a thread over at NeoGAF that points out the low poly environment, canned shadows, PS2-era effects and sprite based foliage. It does look great, but your post uses hyperbole and sarcasm to showcase your own ignorance on the subject. Relative to the current generation of consoles, the Wii U is as Bumpmapping described it. Mind you, the Xeno game mentioned above, the Wind Waker remake and full-on Wii U Zelda game have me considering a purchase of said console. Graphics aren't everything and the Wii U doesn't seem as though it was made to be much more than a better version of current consoles.

[lfclee]

According to the leaked reports for ps4 the Wii u is about the same really you won't notice anything unless you go right up to the tv lol , these fanboys think the ps4 is going to be a high end pc there in for one huge shock !

[JP1369]

If you think that, then you don't know how to read the specs. Provided the VGleaks specs are accurate, PS4 will destroy Wii U in the horsepower department.

[Lior]

Wii u is the most idiotic console since the neogeo

[Nevers0ft]

But... The NeoGeo was awesome!

[ape007]

NeoGeo was pure awesomeness fella

[sackboyhappy]

looking at nintendos specs since the wii makes me wonder if they are the first next gen or the last current gen ha!

[metroid32]

Your on CRACK if you can't see the huge difference in Xenoblade wiiu trailer to every game on ps3 and 360 even most pc games your going to be dissapointed in ps4 sorry kid all 3 have dx11 comparable graphics ?

Take note the ps4 devkits had a meltdown when using UE4 explain that,WiiU zero problems.

[BLKxSEPTEMBER]

i think the wii u is a great system that will cater to both the casual and hardcore. give it time to grow people. look how long it took for the ps3 to prove itself...years!!!

[Thatguy-310]

That's true but look at it this way. Sony any Nintendo are way different when it comes to the games it produce. Never will Nintendo make something like Uncharted or any other the other ps3 exclusives. Nintendo doesn't do that. Let's just wait and see if they do end up coming out with titles like that. I highly doubt it but I'm still curious to see if that changes.

[mcstorm]

I have to disagree when you say Nintendo don't make games look as good as uc. Metroid on the gc was an amazing looking game for its time and I expect the next one to look amazing too on the Wiiu. Also if the Zelda demo is anything to go off this will also look amazing.

Also Mario galaxy looked amazing on the Wii and I think the next 3d Mario game could have as much vibrant level design as lbp.

Im not having a rant I just disagree about what you said about Nintendo. Alto of people on here seem to forget that until the ps3 came out Sony consoles were not about power it was Nintendo consoles that were about the power.

I also don't think the next Xbox and PlayStation will be as bigger jump as people are expecting because of the times we are now in and also over the last 10 years gaming is not just about the core market now. All 3 will want a big chunk of core and none core market.

[delboy]

Uncharted is a corridor shooter, nothing impressive about this game.
Show me a open world game with half the uncharted graphics and than we can talk about ps3 power ;-)

[zebramocha]

@delby infamous 2.

[BLKxSEPTEMBER]

But see that's the beauty of owning multi consoles. I don't want the same experience on my Wii u that I can get on my ps3 or 360. The Wii u will set the trend like it or not. Just like the Wii did before it.

[metroid32]

Your wrong kid Ninty are open to making mature games in fact they are linking up with 3rd partys to co develop games as we speak,and when they have done this before the best versions come our way ??

Lets not forget that racing game Concept GP,also they are developing that lego city with TT,developing Smash with Namco,Secret game with Team ninja,Secret game with Platinum,and many more.

Oh guys GPGPU's do compute tasks quicker and better than cpu's whilst taking zero hit on graphics performance in other words Edram and cpu can be used for gameplay ect and nintendo say the cpu isnt weak it's all about the cache.

[TemplarDante]

3 ductaped Wii CPUs...
These guys want to limit next gen ports..
Too bad, Ninty..
You're the one stuck with 360 and PS3 ports when we game on PS4s and XboxNext soon :)
For those that dont realise it, contrary to Ninty fanboy belief, it is not a Power7 cores, Its Gamecube Gekko cores ----> overclocked to 800mhz (Wii broadway cores)-----> Wii U 3 cpus.

[Yodagamer]

They don't need a huge cpu, the gpgpu covers up the weakness when developed right. It's almost like the ps3 except the ps3 uses the cpu to cover it's gpu weakness.

[sonic989]

the ps3's CPU was one of its kind the CELL processor it was fast it was sooo advanced back then but the wiiu's gpu is nothing special yes its more powerful than the ones inside the ps3 and 360 but when a system comes out with a better GPU ( most likely ) and faaaar better CPU then you have a problem catching up .
but in the end i think they design their systems based on what they need in development process in the coming year ( good strategy if your 1st party teams are good and they are )
IMO i will go with the ps4 i like sony's franchises and of course a powerful console wont hurt anybody

[Yodagamer]

The gpu in the wii u is actually a gpgpu, so no the wii u gpu isn't anything normal. It can do cpu tasks which is why the cpu isn't really need for more than helping out the main processor which is the gpu.

[sonic989]

i know ......
but everyone will be having it and in every pc
the cell was used inside the ps3 and some super computers ( with slightly different architecture )
wiiu gpgpu is nothing special today anyone can have one did you get what i mean

[Ulf]

Actually GPGPU programming has extremely limited applications. It's performance is absolutely terrible on anything that's not embarrassingly parallel.

If you don't know the computer science definition of "embarrassingly parallel", then you probably won't understand my comment. Wikipedia can help anyone with that issue.

[sonic989]

@UIF

parallel computing generally is the future btw i will graduate from computer science .
embarrassingly parallel is a bold statement that means everything should be done again and again and again so that it works at the same time without making any sense for the programmers also dumping down the code so the hardware can execute it

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

"They don't need a huge cpu, the gpgpu covers up the weakness when developed right"

So what will cover up the lack of gpu power do to it doing the cpus job??

I no the answer.. Nothing..

They could just use the whole gpu for graphics and have less cpu power right?? lame move by ninty imo..

They should have put in a powerful cpu and gpu.. Console companies doing it wrong and can't achieve balance.. ugh..

[chadboban]

I'm not gonna be stuck with PS3 and 360 ports because I'll have a PS4 right next to my Wii U. I like to play a wide variety of games and having one console just doesn't work for me. To bad fanboys will be so busy online defending their favorite consoles to the death while I'll be gaming on everything. Seriously, fanboys are the worst part of the gaming community because they are the very same people that prevent us from being a community.

[delboy]

I'm with you chad, wiiu and ps4 combo, and not to forget a pc for gaming.

[ahronith]

chadboban, your mentality is what i wish more gamers would think like. Fanboys/girls are only hurting themselves by pledging allegiance to only one console. Long live gaming.

[chadboban]

@dellboy

PC is a no brainer for me. I actually have a really nice rig with a GTX680 and a 3rd gen intel core i7-3770 3.9Ghz and a laptop I got for a surprisingly decent price with a GTX660m which is quite good for a laptop also has a 3rd gen intel i7-3630QM. Like I said, I game on everything. Still need to get a Vita and Wii U. Also a PS4 whenever it comes out.

@ahronith

Agree with you man, long live gaming!

[quantae06]

@chadboban PS4/Wii U will be lineup also. I might get my first Gaming PC soon. I need a new PC for recording my music, might as well get a Gaming PC while I'm at it. It'll be for music and games.

[7uff1]

I'm not a fanboy but the only consoles that worth buying for me are the Nintendo ones, I really love many of it's IPs. I'm from Brazil, I'm doomed as a gamer, games here are pretty damn expensive(3DS games here are about US$80). I have a pretty good PC and mostly things I can play on PS/Xbox I can play it in my PC with better settings. Nintendo is all about inovation and I also like that, but I agree they could have done a better job with Wii U's hardware without affecting the price. But they're in video game industry for many years, I believe they know what's better for them to work with. Just my opinion, though.

[SuperShyGuy]

I like Nintendo too, but will anyone admit they are totally bumbling around right now?

[mshope10]

we will see

[wiiulee]

how is this news...hasnt this been said over and over again...with only ps and ms fanboys spreading lies...that the wiiu gpu is way ahead of ps3 and 360 and can do better graphics...point is innovation and fun games are not based on nicer pixels...its through innovation and interactivity...which is why nintendo has a fantastic system on their hands...all these silly lies and hate doesnt make sense

[Plagasx]

Lol, better start damage control now while you can! Febuary 20th will be the beginning of the end for the Wii U.

[thezeldadoth]

spoken light a true fanboy. you represent the scum that is tearing this industry apart and causing devs not to take risks.

[FarCryLover182]

Well Nintendo sure didn't take any risks with the Wii-U though. They took the "safe" way by using cheap tech.

[corrus]

HAHAHAHAHA that comment was awesome

[thezeldadoth]

yeah making an entire e3 presentation based on a tablet controller, making their OS radically different than psn/xbox live. Thats not taking risks at all. Sony took such a huge risk last year by announcing yet another over the shoulder shooter. I'm sure their risk this year will be doing the standard upgrading specs to next level...and copying nintendo in some fashion. I'll get the ps4 too though because i dont wish for failure in gaming. I always hope for a console to be awesome.

[PopRocks359]

@Plagasx

I suppose your constant reverse-damage control will have to stop first.

[delboy]

It wouldn't be surprised if no.1 selling console in holiday season 2013 is wiiu.
N would lower the price and some great N exclusives should arrive till then.

[MegaLagann]

And it's people like you that makes gamers look bad when you defend a piece of plastic like it's your lord and savior.

[1upgamer99]

Why would it be the beginning of the end for Nintendo? The Wii U has sold FAR BETTER than PS3 did same time frame. I mean really that is just stupid talk, And I will be picking up a PS4 I just thought your comment was unfounded.

[cyhm3112]

how some stupid people still can't get it. Wii U is even weaker than PS360, like 10% to 20% weaker.

[thezeldadoth]

and ps4 and 720 will be weaker than my pc...whats the big deal?

[sonic989]

pc hmmmm...
i am studying computer science and recently at the graduation year .
PC is ouch i only use my PC to finish my work and stuff
gaming consoles are designed for gaming and making things look smooth and easy without worrying about the hardware compatibility with software you are going to use .
or if its even being optimized for your hardware
then we have the OS problems and the software working environment in consoles companies can control that producing what they want buuut with the pc its unstable.
overall based on my experience with pcs even my desktop and my laptop if they both not in idle situation or empty in terms of hard drive they perform like huh
i got a a core I5 sandy bridge and an ATI radeon HD graphics card and i cant run sonic heroes stably .

[jmc8888]

@sonic 989 wow...simply wow.

You're a computer science major who can't get PC games running and thus discounts PC gaming?

You know how easy it is to get PC games running?

Go to steam, click add to cart, pay, download, let it install, play.

If you need a new graphics driver, then you download it, install it, and that's it.

Play game.

Maybe 1 out of 100 games has problems if it isn't a trash game that is just buggy.

PC gaming is EASY. You can even mess around with the settings to adjust performance.

Now is it a little more work than a console? Sure. But even now some games you need to 'install' or get a new update, so in a sense, sometimes I really don't see a difference between Steam games and console games. Hell with steam I don't even have to bother with discs anymore.

Hardware compatibility is easy. If someone is a moron to what specs mean, yeah it could be hard, but it's really not hard to learn and takes 10 minutes a year to learn the updates.

But it goes beyond this. Why is it that no one knows what they should know anymore? Why aren't people that are supposed to represent something, completely clueless to it now?

Why is it today that bankers don't know anything about banking, money, business?

DOJ knows nothing about trying cases.

Syfy is WWE and Ghost Hunters channel.

MTV is unreality TV channel.

ESPN is sports gossip channel.

News is now moronic banter, weather guessing, and gossip.

NFL has outlawed hitting.

Engineers build valuation models on wall street instead of bridges on main street.

Banks hold our deposits hostage to worthless derivatives (aka gambling on nothing) via repeal of Glass-Steagall and the federal reserve prints money to buy from Treasury who goes into debt by giving that 'money' to the hostage takers without ever freeing the hostage. (and that's the change...HA!)

Journalists (print, web, tv) know nothing about journalism.

Teachers don't teach but prepare students for a test.

Students don't learn anything but how to pass a test.

Cops don't keep the peace while protecting and serving, they ruthlessly follow fascist laws at the expense of everything and anyone.

Fanboy gamers praise weak specs for 'real spec next gen' consoles versus the Wii U while ignoring the fact that a PC has a bigger gap over the 'real spec next gen' consoles then they do against the Wii U. (and didn't learn squat from the last gen)

Apparently computer scientists don't know PC's or PC games.

I mean is this world crazy or what? Somehow the field people are in or what a company is supposed to be about they are clueless about or outright abandon it.

The only thing we need now is a pedophile be named Man of the Year and the grand farce will be complete, after all we have a warmongering and warcriminal who uses extrajudical killing of American children and arms/funds terrorists to further his aims and owns a noble peace prize.

[nintendoland]

how can someone agree with bullshit?

[chadboban]

You have proof to back that up? I'm talking solid 100% factual specs that go into great detail about how much weaker the Wii U is than the 360 & PS3. No comparisons with shoddy ports either please.

[Sgt_Slaughter]

Doesn't exist.

[jmc8888]

@ others

People are calling that the Wii U is dead, and the PS4/720 are 'real next gen systems' with 'real specs' and yet none of them realize that 1.2 TFLOPS or 1.8 TFLOPS is crap compared to PC's from last year. Let alone THIS year's cards which will add another 50-100 percent to that difference.

Literally by 2015 a mid range PC gpu card might be 10x what a 720 is an 7x a PS4.

As is the 2013 GTX 770 mid range PC graphics card will be at least 3x as powerful as a 720.....at least. In your PC for $399 months before a 720/PS4 come out.

Which is funny because a PS4 is supposed to be 3x as powerful as a Wii U, with 720 being 2x.

The 720/PS4/Wii U are all great systems even though all are underpowered vs a mid range PC and that PC gaming is really simple.

0.576 TFLOPS
1.2 TFLOPS
1.8 TFLOPS
2.5 TFLOPS
5.6 TFLOPS
(4-7-14 TFLOPS)

What do those numbers mean?

The first three are the next gen consoles
The next 2 are the GTX 670 and 690 GPUS from last year.
The ones in parentheses are probably what the GTX 770, 790, and SLI 790 will probably give someone in a PC BEFORE a PS4/720 come out.

I'm absolutely speechless how people can claim superiority over the Wii U yet ignore what PC's can do.

I understand what PC's can do, and guess what the Wii U will still run games and compete with PS4/720. All the consoles are good.

Enjoy your Saturday night :)

[Ck1x]

I like when people use numbers as facts, because unless you are delusional its hard to argue against numbers. That being said, with the numbers that you have provided, how do people think that the PS4 & 720 will blow the WiiU out of the water? Will games looks better? I'm assuming so. But at 3-2x the power what are people expecting to see? I've seen many say that Watchdogs will be on the PS4 & 720 but won't run on the WiiU. Which is shocking, because the game has already been announced for the PS3&360 as well. So why wouldn't it run on the system? Many of the fanboys here get caught up in the tech talk to prove my system is better than yours! Even if they don't understand what they are talking about or reading themselves. Its the old Polygons per second argument all over again. Except this time, people are hung up on the Flops of the system. Not understanding that if all 3 systems having similar graphics subsets and features, will allow parity between the games being made or ported to each system. The horsepower difference just determines the quality level that game can run at. The best analogy I can use for those that don't fully understand tech is, if all 3 systems have fuel injected gasoline engines in them they are all capable of burning the same fuel. If the PS4 has 600HP, 720/400HP & WiiU/200HP. They are capable of utilizing the same fuel, but will produce different results. Many things can effect the end results such as airflow, aerodynamics, weight, traction etc... So people get hung up on the HP numbers without weighing all the components as a package or how efficient something is designed. Sorry for the car analogy but I like cars:-)

[BlmThug]

Where are the dedicated exclusives to utilise said hardware? Also Wii U will be left behind by third party devs once the next gen consoles are released.

[1upgamer99]

No it really is not, clearly you do not understand CPU/GPU...Hey better yet, SHOW US THE FACTS and BACK UP WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. What you are saying is not true at all. I could give you 5 articles in less than 5 min if I wanted to waste my time. It is newer tech and more capable because of that. Akuma.

[FlyingFoxy]

So my 2.6ghz i7 920 CPU from late 2008 is probably still more powerful than the next gen consoles, i think people forget that since consoles have fixed specs then games can be optimized better for that hardware than if you have the equivalent specced PC.

I will always be a PC gamer, but for some games i enjoy using consoles/handhelds. i say if you want the best you have to own both.

[wishingW3L]

The i7 920 is not even more powerful than current gen.

i7 920 = 59 GFLOPs average

https://spreadsheets.google...

PS3 Cell = 230 GFLOPs theoretical peak (100-200 average)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[Kos-Mos]

Can`t belive blackbaron were trolled for this. Inside story?

[TemplarDante]

Lol at the guys forgetting the slow ram in the wii u lol. enough of the "teh gpu is super sauce strong, has power to compensate for teh slow CPU," The ram is slower than PS3 and 360. Bottleneck problems will make it hard to get the best out of it. With a crappy cpu... just. Damn.
Lol Iwata is going to get fired/resign.

[cyhm3112]

nintendo tried to fool some people to buy into Wii U, really funny.

[neogeo]

I have a WiiU and what no one is bring up is how powerful the browser is. It's faster then my gaming laptop running chrome. I can stream 1080p youtube videos smooth as butter all while playing a game at the same time!!! Show me PS3/360 doing half that!

[YoungPlex]

How is this news? Everyone knows that the Wii U is GPU heavy and that it is more than capable of shelling out graphics that look amazing. Look at X, that games has been shown early on and for a game of that size and scope, to be able to retain its visual fidelity this early on is impressive and goes to show that developers are barley scratching the surface.

[deSSy2724]

I dont own a Wii U, i dont want it (for now) just because there are not many games but im curious what will happen in another 1-2 years. I own a PS3, PC and Wii but im worried about Wii U future proof.... Nintendo always had trouble with 3rd party support, its actually not only about power (back in past it really was not about power), its about Hiroshi Jamauchi etc, Nintendo had 3rd party trouble even with N64 and GC but the 3rd party support was still better than Wii 3rd party support. Wii U is in better position than Wii.. why? Wii was not much powerful than GC (more like GC 1.5 lol) but the Wii U is much stronger than Wii and it has a "more standard" controller (Vita and iPad combo) but is it enough for 3rd party support in 8th gen? im not so sure, hmm like i said, im worried. We all are expecting high end hardware from next Sony and MS consoles but i highly doubt these next gen Sony/MS consoles will outperform my high end PC, and some developers are just hating on Nintendo and its NOT ONLY about specs like some fanboys are saying.

[jmc8888]

Wii U already has excellent 3rd party support. All NEW consoles (even 360 and PS3) missed out on games early on because devs didn't want to put a game out on them and lose money. Instead they made the games on PS2/xbox.

Same thing will happen with PS4/720. Games will continue to be made on PS3/360 and NOT have a PS4/720 version.

No tech is future proof, and just like the Wii U, the PS4/720 are already majorly outclassed by PC's.

Luckily 'next gen' engines are capable of running games on PS3/360, and thus going forward the Wii U/PS4/720 should have no problem getting less advanced versions, similar to how it's been with 360/PS3 getting lesser PC versions this time around. (though usually it's more like make it for 360, then port it to PS3 and PC and make the PC version with more bells and whistles).

The only thing that keeps PS3/360 from running 'next gen' games is memory. They could still play all the next gen games for the next five years if they had the memory to do what they want to take gaming to. But with Crysis 2,3, and Battlefield 3 you indeed have what are 'next gen' games on 360/PS3.

It wouldn't look as pretty, but it would still be a game similar to the MUCH better looking versions that are capable.

Thus really in terms of game engines...the PS3/360/Wii U/PS4/720/PC are all capable of running the same games.

I buy all consoles and build my own PC, and will continue to do this as I want the ability to play whatever game fancies my interest.

[BladerunnerZX]

I agree.

The only thing holding PS3 back is its small amount of Ram.

The PS3s Cell processor will never meet its full potential because of the PS3s paltry 256mb of Ram and bottleneck architecture.

Even Sony admitted this to game developers when development of the PS4 began.

[DivineAssault]

who cares.. As long as i get a new & improved zelda, metroid, FE, wario world, etc ill be happy with my purchase.. I already know not to expect much from 3rd party

[kingPoS]

Hmmm... so the WiiU's heart is stronger than it's brain.

Nintendo games always did have more heart than most. hehe

[Knushwood Butt]

That's great.

Now lets see some release dates for games that aren't just Wii equivalent with tagged on Wii U controller gimmicks.

[BrianC6234]

What is there to praise about the Wii U's memory? The 2GB might seem like a lot compared to the current generation but it's way too low. They needed 4GB to be able to do real next gen graphics.

[sonic989]

for pc yes even more than 4GB to run a normal game
but for consoles not that much .
Of course any added ram memory would be sooooo welcom of course and it will be useful but i wish you dont confuse the pc needs with console's needs
pcs are much more like power wasters ( for games ) while consoles are designed to be ultimately compatible
I.E : try to run mass effect 3 on a core i5 2nd gen and ATI radeon ( this hardware is more powerful than current gen ) but guess what happened i was speechless LOL worse than what i expected really
btw i am a computer scientist and i can explain why it did that bad but who wants to read a technical paper XD

[GloriaHiggs22]

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[younghavok]

I was quite actually quite amazed with Eddie's story. But what is your take on the article at hand about the Wii U?

[chukamachine]

I think many of you forget one thing.

Nintendo cares about cartoony graphics, always has done. Always will do.

Sure the wii u will have some nice 3rd party games.

But if you really want the hardcore and casual, PS4 will be the way to go.

It will have more I.p's in both regards.

[MasterCratosKong66]

what a sad one console world you live in. all of the consoles have great games, therefore as long as i have the money i will own them all. you notions of hardcore and casual are irrelevant to gamers (people who ENJOY games)

[KrisButtar]

I wonder why the dev kits were so late coming out. Sounded like companies only just got them.

[TheDynamic]

Why Is The Wii U Even Relevant ? Its A Failed Attempt At Being A Useless Device, Its Something You Give To A 7 Year Old Who Sucks At The PSP Vita. Also The CPU Is HORRIBLE Because It Puts The Memory Under A Shitload Of Stress And Has Little Power. Nintendo Was Better Off Making Pokemon For The 3DS

[Qrphe]

"It's a failed attempt at being a useless device"

So it indeed is a useful device I see

[TheDynamic]

No It Is So Garbage That It Below The Standards Of Useless This Piece Of Crap Is Worthless And Should Be Considered A Console. Its Better Off Being Part Of The Next Gen Leap Frog Play Thing For Toddlers

[TheDynamic]

Well I Meant To Say It Shouldn't Be Considered A Console And It Is Below The Standards Of Useless And Is Worthless

[Joegrine20]

HHAHAHAHAHAHAH You just replied 3 useless comments xD

[NeoTribe]

Why are there still articles trying to make wii u seem relevant when the beast that is ps4 is approaching. Ps4 is gonna make wii u seem like one of those fisher price animal sound makers. "the cow goes mooo".

[jmc8888]

Talk about not in touch with spec reality.

PS4 isn't a beast.
It's 3x a Wii U by the rumors.

Meanwhile a mid range PC is 3x a PS4 when it launches.

Just wait until 2015 when PC's have a gap on the PS4 that they didn't have over the PS3 until 2011.

So what does a PC do to a PS4 when a PC can do 5-14 TFLops BEFORE a PS4 even launches? That's 5 for a mid range $399 card and 14 for a dual gpu in sli.

Going by your example that would mean a the PS4 is a fisher price toy compared to a PC. But I know there is more to the story.

That said, the Wii U will still play the same games, and is relevant. The 360/PS3 had a much, much bigger lead spec wise on the Wii and still lost.

All the consoles will be good, but none are a beast.

Amazing how reality leaves when fanboyism reaches its terminal stage and effects the brain.

[truechainz]

if you play on consoles for power there's this thing called a PC that I should introduce you to

[Jadedz]

The Wii U is a very balanced console.

[Jason143]

this article is comedy

[Gimmemorebubblez]

Who said those Ps4 and 720 specs were real?
No one on this site knows how much more or less powerful the ps4 and 720 are than current high end PCs.

[BladerunnerZX]

I think the Wii u has the capability to put out some very nice graphics.

As others have pointed out just look at Resident Evil REmake on Gamecube. Even in standard def after all these years the game still looks good.

game devs can always use tricks to max out a closed consoles graphics ability just like the pre-rendered backgrounds in REmake.

[TemplarDante]

Too bad then, only their 1st party titles will look amazing as their 3rd party support dwindles.

[khowat]

The Wii u is next-gen because nintendo decided it would be their next-gen console. There is no discussion, there is no debate, that is a fact. The Wii u's graphics maybe a nudge above the xbox 360 and ps3 graphics but it is still next-gen. Next-gen is fucking chronological not graphics-wise or anythingelse-wise. And who cares, it's Nintendo, they don't give a fuck about graphics and all the people who are on this website are saying that the Wii u needs better graphics so that it can wheel in the hardcore audience. Fuck that, isn't it obvious that Nintendo has wheeled in as much as the hardcore audience as it can. If we assume that the people on N4g are hardcore and people who are on sites like N4g are hardcore and on these websites 99.9999999% of people hate the Wii u with a fiery, burning passion, we can assume that very few people are on the fence about getting a Wii u. And to every one on this entire thread who doesn't have a Wii u or is thinking of getting a Wii u, why are you here, this is of no importance to you. you're not going to buy one why do you care about its graphics. Compare the bump from the NES to the SNES and then to the N64, the graphical leap is variable the next-gen title is not.

[Jek_Porkins]

The way gamers act now days kind of sickens me, if you were around in the 80's and gamed, you'll know Nintendo was always about fun and the actual gameplay. If the only thing you care about is power, go play something else, Nintendo puts out some of the best games of all time and that is FACT.

The most powerful console has never won a generation, you look back at some of the more powerful consoles and that didn't help them in the end. Games need more than good graphics.

I think the Wii U games out right now look 100x better than anything the PS3/360 had at launch. Which says a lot about what the future holds for the console. I actually pity gamers who bring up power as a reason to enjoy a console.

[wishingW3L]

Wii U has weaker CPU, lower system bandwidth, no HDD, no blu-ray playback and only slightly better GPU and just for that they are selling the console for $350 which is a total rip-off compared to the PS3/Xbox.

This is not even about power, it is about Nintendo ripping you off and you letting them do it because you're a fanboy. Another example of an overpriced Nintendo system? The $250 launch price of the 3DS. But at least people were smart enough to not fall for that one.

[Jek_Porkins]

A lot of what you are paying for is the tablet controller which works very, very well. They are taking a loss on each console, so how exactly are they "ripping us off"?

I've seen ripoffs before, I've seen companies strip down features and take away a lot of things from consoles, but nobody seemed to complain about that. It seems to me that it's just the popular thing to hate on Nintendo and the Wii U because it isn't lighting the world on fire the way the original Wii did.

News flash, whenever you have an amazing statistic like the original Wii's sales, it is very difficult to match that output.

Look at the whole "Madden Curse" thing, the NFL is a tough sport and almost every player is injured in one way or another during the year. The player that ended up on the cover usually came off the best season of their career, yet when they cant match that season statistically or if they should be injured, people make up things like a curse.

As for the 3DS, Nintendo is a business and they try to make money. Also, you can buy a Wii U for $299, which is a pretty fair price for a new console at launch.

[truechainz]

you probably shouldnt talk about getting ripped off when you have no concept of money or how businesses run. Nintendo is taking a loss on each wii U. They are not without flaws, but don't act like you are getting ripped off just because the stuff you want isnt in the system. It is just different and if you want those things buy another device.

[lilbroRx]

Your analysis is devoid of fact.

The fact is that Nintendo sold the Wii U at a loss, and the same with the 3DS. The cost of the console is relative to how much it costs to manufacture.

Also, those stats you list are have been stated to be taken far out of context many times.

The GPU is over twice as powerful. Not only does it output to two screen at one, but it does it at higher resolutions with higher frame rates.

The CPU is not weaker. The guy who uncovered the clocks said that himself. It uses a different architecture that doesn't translate 360/PS3 code well and does out of order proessing. That is why there are issues with some of the ports. They were not built/optimized for the Wii U's system structure.
http://www.cs.washington.ed...
Educate yourself

The system bandwidth is actually higher because everything is more densely connected(CPU and GPU are on the same die) and uses much more advanced, modern, energy efficient technology. All Wii U ports have much faster load times than their PS3/360 counterparts.

The Wii U was designed to do more with less power consumption. Only people who know nothing about technology still translate lower energy consumption(lower clock) into lower strength.

[killerorca258]

Why don't graphic whores get a grip, the human eye is NOT, I repeat, NOT PHYSICALLY CAPABLE OF DISTUINGISHING GRAPHICAL DENSITY OF MORE THAN 300 Pixels Per Inch, i.e. Slightly more than Full HD resolution on a 40 inch tv. And what's more, even if people want to show off the only cool feature of their PS4, the 4K Resolution, they'll have to fork out 12,000 bucks for the TV, good luck with that MORONS, I CAN THINK OF BETTER THINGS TO DO WITH 12 GRAND.

[Bladesfist]

Everytime I see these the human eye can not comments I die a little inside. You can train your eye to easily spot the difference between 60 and 120fps even if people say you can not see more than 30fps. Peoples eyesight can not be put into one category.

[TruthbeTold]

And yet, how many average, every day consumers 'train their eyes'? How many can even tell a significant difference between 30fps and 60fps for that matter?

Every bit of extra power, and added cost of the new consoles is going to be catering to the relatively tiny number of people who love to feel good about themselves for something like that. When the consoles don't sell well due to the price, all they'll have left is to shake their heads at how 'stupid' everyone else is.

Pathetic.

I doubt seriously, all of these silly claims about PS4 and Next Box being these "10X more powerful" machines than their predecessors. The PS3 is still $250-$300. Are people ready to pay twice that, with the company still taking a heavy loss on each console sold? I know the shareholders of these companies are not.

"Yeah, the next blah blah blah console is going to have a $500 GPU, but don't worry, it will only cost our company $150 for each one. We'll have DDR5 RAM in it, and a 6-8 core CPU! All for the low low price of $400!"

Dream Land on so many levels. But somehow, Nintendo is the one doing wrong here by making a product for the masses who haven't painted consoles into a tiny corner where they can't win?

The saddest thing to me about this? The on screen difference we see for all of the extra cost will be minimal. Yet another reason why I think Sony and MS are too smart to release something that 'Wannabe Elitists' who want a console to try and stack up against PC's want. That's a fool's game.

[fossilfern]

@TruthbeTold

Im sorry but iv heard this 30vs60fps argument for ages. You can indeed tell the difference between 30 and 60.

[TruthbeTold]

I didn't say you can't tell the difference. I said that the difference isn't significant to most people. I.E. The difference doesn't matter due to how little a difference it makes to the average consumer. They don't see a comparison of 30 and 60 fps and say 'OH MY GOD!' They see it (if they see it) and say 'Hmm... I guess that one looks a little bit better. What's the difference in price?' Guess which one they're buying? The cheaper one.

People like us, who are so into gaming that we read gaming articles, and post messages at places like here at N4G, need to stop pretending that we're so great in number. That the little things that we've argued as big things amongst ourselves, matter in the slightest to 2/3 of the people who will be buying the same consoles and games as us. That our 'favorite console companies' can cater only to us and still make a respectable profit.

[Bladesfist]

@TruthbeTold I don't own a console, I own an expensive gaming PC so I guess I am in the minority. Some of my games reach up to 300fps so you start to get used to different levels of smoothness. 30fps feels choppy for me and after 45 I don't mind too much. I guess what I am trying to say is I don't care about the average console consumers eyes, I am just saying it is possible and people should not group everyone in one category when it comes to this.

[lilbroRx]

Your human eye may not be, but I certainly can in an instant.

[dubberman]

You're all pathetic. You argue with so much effort and sometimes just sheer ignorance and vulgarity about a video game console. It's a toy, You play games on it.