Xbox 720 or PS4 Graphics Simply Cannot be on Par with Avatar: Here's Why

GR - "Their processing power includes 40,000 processors and 104 terabytes of RAM. Hardly the kind of thing you’d find on a $400 console."

[Hatsune-Miku]

What are tomorrows lottery numbers?

[Angels3785]

Are you serious? This is common logic! The author doesn't just spout a bunch of crap either, it is a well thought out, well researched article. There is noooo way that games next generation will look like avatar, EVEN ON PC! The guy even said "Their processing power includes 40,000 processors and 104 terabytes of RAM" I also read somewhere that AVATAR took the computers MONTHS to complete. Also it even says things like Avatar are pre-rendered, and the processing power needed for a real time version of it is immense. Let alone the fact that if we compare this to games, AVATAR would be the most linear game in the world because they are rendering only specific things. not game worlds with AI etc.

[Hatsune-Miku]

" A recent article on Cinemablend quotes Chris Doran, the co-founder of Geometrics, a middleware company currently developing technology for the next generation of consoles, as saying that new consoles like the Xbox 720 and PlayStation 4 will offer graphics comparable to the James Cameron movie."

There are improvements made in technology on a daily basis and the way some things are achieved today using High tech doesn't mean it can't be achieved through other means of technological advancements. They don't need to achieve something that is pixel to pixel as accurate as "avatar" they just have to simulate the image fidelity or be close. Something that is "comparable"

[Smokeeye123]

Give it 20 years and we'll be close.

[sjaakiejj]

"The author doesn't just spout a bunch of crap either, it is a well thought out, well researched article."

So well researched in fact that he even misinterpreted what Chris Doran said in the first place. Chris never said we'd see Avatar running in real-time, so any argument attempting to disprove that is already moot.

Here's the actual quote, even posted in the article:
"I am confident that the lighting itself could get close to Avatar quality. Then the question moves onto other aspects of content creation. Is that level of modeling detail feasible, and will the animation, physics, and AI all be equally plausible," said Doran of his company’s upcoming engine, Enlighten.

If you read that sentence properly, you'll realize that Chris was only referring to the lighting, not anything else. If you've seen any of Geometrics' work, you'd know that that's perfectly plausible.

Also, who to believe - random blogger that can't even interpret a quote correctly, or CEO of a company that has delivered incredible innovations in graphics in the past years?

[TheRealSpy]

lol @ wishful thinking.

this embedded video is far and away the best looking thing i've seen visually in a game. i'll be surprised if the next ps and xbox can even touch this.

[fr0sty]

There are a lot of things, like the real time next gen final fantasy tech demo, that already look as good as that crysis video, if not better.

[MAJ0R]

Think about what you're saying. Basically, it's common sense like you said (some people don't have this) that Avatar will never be met one to one in a game because the computers used to process it were insanely powerful, and even then it took a very long time to render.

Now, you're saying that it doesn't have to meet Avatar's graphics with pixel-to-pixel quality, but may be able to get very close to looking like it. What you're saying is that next generation consoles (more than likely launching in 2013) that cost around $350 will be able to render CG photo realistic quality picture in real time, with at least 30 FPS. That is insane.

[SilentNegotiator]

You guys are ridiculous. CURRENT consoles can do Avatar. I already played James Cameron's Avatar: The Game on the ps3 and 360, and watched the Blu-ray on my ps3.

/s
lol

[_-EDMIX-_]

My question is, who the hell stated it was going to be? I mean sure one can dream, but i've yet to hear really anyone state next gen would look like "Avatar" graphics.

Will it in the future, yes. Its just the matter of time. Moore's law pretty much guarantees it will some day be a reality.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011...

Now if such a thing where to happen in gaming, it would change a whole lot of things. On top of that, we need to remember this is a film and not a game. To argue weather its next gen or not is quite silly because i'm not sure anyone in there right mind is even suggesting such a thing, also to argue weather it would EVER happen is down right stupid.

Moore's Law says other wise.

PS1 had 2 mb of ram

PS2 had 32mb

PS3 had 256mb (which to my understanding can be shared like with the PS1's to the GPU making it 512mb like the 360.

so 16X is what we seem to be looking at in terms of ram increase, mind you if in the future ram can indeed be used in a SSD, this will CHANGE! It will no longer be by 16X, it might be by 100X or even 200X (just based on SSD's and the space they will hold by the time such a thing happens)

So PS4 will be around 8gigs or so. (just based on what History has shown us) If history stays true, by PS5 it will be 158GB ram, but by then if SSD's indeed act as ram too, it would actually be any where from 500GB to a 1TB. Mind you this is all being gauged by Avatar the CG film, by then the same technology that made Avatar would clearly be dated and far better techology would take its place.

This theory on ram is simply if Avatar would be considered the "staple" of films to be copied in terms of graphics in a game. But this would be based off of technology some how just staying at a stand still and Avatar just being the target render. Games will look PAST Avatar by then, none of use know what ATI and Nvida have in store for there GPU/APU/CPU's in the next 15 years.

MIND YOU this is just based off of what "consoles" might do, haven't even said crap about the PC yet.

Just 10 years ago, having 256mb of ram in your PC was considered "beast". People have 32GB ram set ups now. From being half, of half a gig to 32X that in a decade. Now, what happens if SSD is indeed going to act as ram for gaming in the future?

[Dasteru]

@TheRealSpy:

ROFL "Top Secret Tessellated Toad Tech"

[jerethdagryphon]

moores law states that the number of transistors in a given amount of silicon will double every 18 months..

it hasnt really been relevent for a while

Processor Transistor count Date of introduction Manufacturer Proc ess Area
NV3 3,500,000 1997 NVIDIA 350 nm
NV5 15,000,000 1999 NVIDIA 25 0 nm
NV15 25,000,000 2000 NVIDIA 1 80 nm
NV40 222,000,000 2004 NVIDIA 130 nm 305 mm²
G80 681,000,000 2006 NVIDIA 9 0 nm 480 mm²
RV770 956,000,000[9] 2008 AMD 55 nm 260 mm²
GT200 1,400,000,000[10] 2008 NVIDIA 55 nm 576 mm²
RV870 2,154,000,000[11] 2009 AMD 40 nm 334 mm²
Cayman 2,640,000,000 2010 AMD 40 nm 389 mm²
GF100 3,000,000,000[12] 2010 NVIDIA 40 nm 529 mm²
Kepler 3,540,000,000[13] 2012 NVIDIA 28 nm 294 mm²
Tahiti 4,310,000,000[14] 2011 AMD 28 nm 365 mm²

as die size shrinks transistor count decreases
engineers are now struggling with cross-talk noise
basically on 28nm dies the electrons are so close they start to interfere with signals

i do cgi as a hobby and can give an example of render time changing

on a duron 600/512mb a one minute animation with 1 light source took me 119 hours to render at 30fps and 800x600 the same animation on a phenom 2 955 quad core with 4 gb ram less then an hour, that a huge improvment in tech over 10 years

a die shrink of 100 % will enable mores law but until we get 14nm chips were more or less at the limit. only increasing chip size give us more room.

[ProjectVulcan]

EDMIX-

Moore's law will probably end within the next 10-15 years.

It applies to existing silicon lithography which will either hit its practical ceiling within a decade, or become so expensive to be unpractical to shrink any further within this period.

Other ways will have to be found to keep increasing computer performance while reducing size and power consumption of the chips.

We have taken it for granted for the past 40 years that this process continues, but it WILL end for existing computer technology, and very soon.

Maybe we can get into 3D chip stacking and such but we'll see, it'll probably not prevent the power consumption increasing.

[Autodidactdystopia]

@sjaakiejj

Just the lighting?

Lighting is THE factor in pre-rendered CG today. the rest is very feasible if not only more closely feasible on todays hardware.

Its the lighting that makes the difference, geometry is one thing but you can literally pack tons of it on screen, and more often than not movie companies are just getting by in terms of polycount, they just use advanced lighting techniques to hide the polycount of their models which is perfectly normal on a budget.

The lighting is the MOST compute intensive part of the entire process.

No way in hell.

not to mention these avatar graphics are rendered at 4k and then downsampled to 1080 which totally improves cinematic AA

but then again sony fans cant seem to tell the difference between 720 and 1080 in terms of resolution so odds are the claim will be made anyway.

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

Although I agree that's not feasible for next gen hardware to meet Avatar's "photorealistic" graphics (since there isn't 9 feet tall blue cat-people walking around or natural xmas tree that talk to people through their hair, guess what, we're not going to readily sport differences between reality and CG while when those movies try to show CG people we can still spot it), I would like to remember that 10 years ago, to even think a game could look like a Pixar or Dreamworks animation was foil-hat crazy. So never say never.

Personally I'm much more worried about how animations, physics and AI (specially with multiple enemies) will evolve. I don't feel the urge to switch graphics just yet, in fact, after watching several of those engine-sponsored "next gen tech demos", I gotta say I'm not impressed.

It's not that the new tech doesn't look good or doesn't evolve enough, it does, but the current tech already look good enough, if that's a good term... I mean, it's not like the current 3D models look like a bunch of piled polygons or textures look like no more than a matching color. Also developers had been pulling some impressive lighting with the so called "outdated consoles".

The moments that break the 4th wall and remind us that "hey it's just a game" are the weird animations, funny physics and stupid AI.

[XB1_PS4]

There's a difference between live graphic rendering, and rendering a movie down to a bluray, movie screen or dvd format. That takes forever. Playing a video game is different because all of the resources are actual image/sound files that get loaded and unloaded as the camera views or unviews them.

[subtenko]

You are right but think of the technological advances we could make years from now. A $400 console in the future could end up making Avatar movie graphics look like a joke :D

I didnt give a year, I'm just simply saying many years from now someone could invent or discover more crazy stuff that'll become cheap/affordable. Look how far technology available to the public has come in the last 12 years.

[Consoldtobots]

@jereththegryphon

tell that to Intel they are already working on 14nm and are aiming to get down to 5nm by 2015.

[morkendo23]

@ angels and miku

even if this is RE-MOTELY possible PS4-720 price tag be out-of-our reach with technology of AVATAR graphics 1,500-2,000.00

[SilentNegotiator]

I see a lot of comments saying "some day"

But, uh....I'm pretty sure this article is about the NEXT gen, and I think we can absolutely all agree that isn't going to happen.

[andibandit]

When Moore deducted his law, i dont think he saw the PS3 comming.

[milohighclub]

This was posted below and I think you should all watch it before acting like you all know what the future holds For gaming.
Btw didnt a dude from AMD say next gen would be able to produce avatar graphics. I think if anyone would know it would be the dudes producing the gpu...just sayin

vortis + 15h ago
Here is a correction since you are wrong. Real-time game simulation with ray-tracing. Actually works. Actually runs.

http://www.cinemablend.com/...

[N4g_null]

Actually we are getting closer, really close. Gpgpus or CPU hybrids are paving the way. The problems is price now. You can actually get systems commercially (openly) as opposed to specialty systems from some avid reseller. I believe origin is very close to what I use.

Yet unless the next gen has gtx690s and a CPU geared for certain things we may not see it this gen.

You have to understand. This gens jump in graphics was not due to brute force. Shaders being supported in silicon made that happen.

We have a interactive light source engine solution in multiple engines. Culling is coming to the gpu computing, per baked effects are switched on and off in real time. Ultimidely we will see voxel replace mip mapping.

It is about effiencent use of what you have. This is not the goal of movie studios. This is the goal of amd, nvidia and countless engine designers. There will always be limits to real time graphics but it is up to the studios to hide these limits creatively.

Look up shaders, normal mapping, polygon culling, voxels, tessalation, gpu ray tracing, gpu subsurface scattering, gpgpu progress on all of the above, good ol differed rendering using cloud based solutions, the limits of computing shaders, bandwidth advances and system on chip designs.

A lot is possible yet we will see. Even ms is learning how to lower os over head! So any thing is possible. Many did not see normal mapping coming and I'm sure the next smart trick will be a suprise once more. Understand more is not the way forward focus and effiencent methods are.

[TongkatAli]

I've become Hastune Miku fanboy after watching some videos last night, Sony needs to keep that IP exclusive and make her the Japanese mascot of PlayStation, Back on topic, do you know how much it would cost for a console to have that image fidelity in the far future ? I'm guessing 600$

People don't want to pay 600$ for a console in this economy and I heard the economy isn't going to get better, I'm talking about mainstream. I know some that would pay over 1000$ for it.

[TenkoTAiLS]

Miku belongs to Crypton Future Media, and the games are produced by Sega under strict licenses. The character has no affiliation to any console or console company, wouldn't make sense to have her as a mascot for a company that doesn't own her likeness or any rights to her at all >.<

[Thatguy-310]

I mean I think its common sense so I literally don't see why bother making a whole artisticle about it lol but yea no way in hell are next gen graphics on ps4/720 will be on par with Avatar.

[BinaryMind]

Yeah, lets at least see a game that can reach early Pixar movies before we jump straight to Avatar.

[ABizzel1]

The consoles will easily produce Avatar graphics as soon as they get dual GTX 690's, 16GB of RAM, and a 16 core processor in 2025.

[sourav93]

Even that's not enough to render Avatar like graphics in real time. You didn't read the article, did you?

[ABizzel1]

And you're taking things to literal. My point was it would cost too much and take 10+ years for console or even PC games to render something that even resembles Avatar or for that matter 1990's Pixar movies.

[DivineAssault]

Engines like Unreal 4 have tools that assist & even eliminate certain tedious & stressful tasks devs have to go through.. Technology advancements will allow many new things to be accomplished in shorter time frames.. I dont think it will be dot by dot avatar graphics but i know some sexy things will happen.. Cloud gaming will be implemented into nx gen as well.. Some devs will only need to make one game build for certain games & stream them

[tachy0n]

*cough PCGaming already can cough*

[ziggurcat]

@ tachyon:

*cough*that's pretty nice, but no... they can't*cough*

[360ICE]

I think it's a fair prediction that it won't be quite at Avatar level, or even all that close.

I just hope the standard for storytelling will be far beyone Avatar level. Then again, the average baseball game has more a more impressive narrative than that movie, so I think that's a safe prediction too.

[greenpowerz]

Did people really think this of consoles? The rest of Hollywood can't even compete with the technical prowess of this movie.

These are the computers http://www.geek.com/wp-cont...

It just wasn't a bunch of powerful computers and new state of the art software techniques but also *Fusion Camera System*

" developed by James Cameron and Vince Pace is the most elaborate and advanced camera system ever devised"

http://avatarblog.typepad.c...

The processing needed to produce these visuals would cause consoles and Home PC's to catch fire for the next 15 years(just kidding not possible on 99% of anything)

Video games can't even do -photo realistic- there's no way in hell they would be able to do -hyper realistic-(super detail and special effects)

[neogeo]

You could daisy chain a nes,snes,n64,Gamecube,Wii,WiiU , ps1,ps2,ps3,ps4, Xbox,Xbox360,xbox720, the world most powerful PC with dual 690's and a Vectrex and only get to about 2.5% of Avatar graphics.

But it would only take half of the NeoGeo's power to run it 120fps easy:)

[MaxXAttaxX]

GT5 got close to photorealism thanks to it's lighting.
The key is in the lighting.

[Darth_Bane79]

I think we all should start thinking outside the box and realize that "Next Gen" gaming is not just gonna be about graphics, but mostly about WHAT CAN THE GAME DO. This means mechanics, processing speeds, more realistic or more complex situations that can be represented with far better results. Besides, cost is gonna be a big issue for both Microsoft and Sony, specially since Nintendo is selling their new console at around 350, and when parents but consoles for their kids on Christmas and economy being the way it is world wide, price is gonna be a huge factor when deciding which console to get.

[sonic989]

its hard and unlikely but we dont know the future or work at sony or microsoft
so we should learn to wait then judge we dont know nothing
didnt each generation surprise us with something we should wait and see plus all those 40,000 processor and stuff of course we wont have that but there is something called techniques and tools to do that at minimum resource use so patience wont kill any body

[DwightOwen]

Punctuation: Learn It, Love It, USE IT.

[sonic989]

thank you anything more useful buddy

[PopRocks359]

@Hatsune-Miku

Sony said the PS2 would give us Pixar quality graphics and it wound up being the weakest of its generation. Don't believe everything you hear.

[MaxXAttaxX]

That's what Microsoft said about the Xbox last Gen, along with "nearly unlimited graphical visuals" and whatnot.

[TheXgamerLive]

Its not just processing power and terabytes its mainly the game engine. Curent gen consoles are almost there now in many ways so YES next gen should start out within the ballpark of avatar and move beyond that with experience and upgraded engines within 2 years.

Avatar was being made/developed some what 5 or 6 years ago and yes we have made leaps beyond tech of that time and future next gen tech could easily be mind blowing.
XBOX 720 and PS4 will surprise people in a yr. most probable fall sept. oct. 2013. I also believe we will see MS and sony hitting us with a price of around $499.99 US. early tech is expensive and as we know cost will lower but this price will be well worth it.

The Wii U is a bit overpriced considering its tech hasnt leaped at all over xbox or PS.

[ILive]

The developer said the lighting would be comparable to Avatar and nothing else. This article is pretty much just written for the sake of being written.

[MadMen]

Doesn't matter the article or the reason, the next gen systems will not be on par with avatar, nor have they ever with their promises on graphic claims, we heard this with Toy Story last gen

Not going to happen

[Mighty Boom]

lol I remember that Sony piece of propaganda. Too bad they couldn't deliver on the promise of that 2005 KZ demo.

Disagree me. Now.

[MySwordIsHeavenly]

I disagreed with you, for obvious reasons.

[tehpees3]

As far as I know we still aren't near toy story graphics (despite what Sony said). Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I still doubt they'll be a system next gen to produce animation and realism like this

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Like I said feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But from what I can tell we aren't even near animation like that yet.

[yewles1]

"One of the basic premises of the Xbox is to put the power in the hands of the artist," Blackley said, which is why Xbox developers "are achieving a level of visual detail you really get in 'Toy Story.'"

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1...

"Gates said the 3-D chips in the Xbox would be three times faster than anything on the market and offer nearly unlimited graphical visuals. "We're approaching the level of detail seen in Toy Story 2," he said, referring to the computer-generated kids film from Disney/Pixar."

http://www.wired.com/scienc...

[MasterCornholio]

The closest game to Toy story like visuals were the Ratchett and Clank games.

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3...
http://www.juegostoystory.n...

We are close to toy story level visuals but Avatar is a completely different beast.

http://joomgalaxy.com/demo/...

[Oner]

+Agree & +Well Said yewles1

[vortis]

Here is a correction since you are wrong. Real-time game simulation with ray-tracing. Actually works. Actually runs.

http://www.cinemablend.com/...

[milohighclub]

Had to comment here. thank you for that video. Ive felt for a while that next gen would utilise ray tracing, this pretty much confirms it. Who needs avatar graphics when we can have life graphics.

[Autodidactdystopia]

Avatar Is raytraced.

I dont know of any serious development software that doesnt use raytracing.

the reason that video is so blurry is because its missing the compute power to complete the image in time for the next frame.

[milohighclub]

Yeah I know, I never said it wasn't. N I understand about the grainyness too but reading under the video it goes on to say that it's running on old code and the new code is Much less Grainy. Dunno what specs its running on but that video could of just rendered this article and all the comments pointless as we could have photorealistic games on consoles as soon as next gen.

[jerethdagryphon]

play crack in time thats about as close to pixar as we have right now

[GearSkiN]

Id say its a long way from now for this to happen.

[jetpacksheep]

Graphics are probably not going to reach that level of polish but look at games such as Metal Gear Ground Zeros and Star Wars 1313, they perform good enough for me.

[WeskerChildReborned]

Ground Zeros is a current gen game that looks really impressive. I think Star Wars 1313 is a next gen game. Also Last of Us looks impressive too for a current gen game.

[BeAGamer]

according to my sources, PS4 exclusive games will easily surpass the fidelity of Avatar.

[iamgoatman]

Voices in your head don't count.

[StreetsofRage]

LMAO!

[beerkeg]

I have the same sources I think, are they called Mr and Mrs Anonymous?

[GearSkiN]

Bathsalt..

[megamanX2]

"Xbox 720 or PS4 Graphics Simply Cannot be on Par with Avatar"

really no duh lol who would expect such a thing, and why would anyway want that? The systems that are out look good, but most of the games are crap anyway.

"according to my sources, PS4 exclusive games will easily surpass the fidelity of Avatar."

and what sources are those...wet dreams.com?

[Skynetone]

ps3/360 can bring toy story like graphics to the consoles, ive no doubt in a few years ps4/720 will bring avatar like graphics to the consoles

[wishingW3L]

Amen!

[Imalwaysright]

Isnt possible to achieve graphics on par with Avatar with Ray Tracing? Dont know how much power it would be needed to do it real time though.

[WheatBread]

LOL it would probably take a couple more gens just to reach the graphics level of CGI cutscenes from PSX games let alone avatar graphics.

[HeavenlySnipes]

... :/

[DeadIIIRed]

It's been a while since you've played a PSX game with cut-scenes huh?

[SlavisH2]

This is what R&D is for the advancing of technology. That means we can reach milestone more efficiently. Unless you are involved in the r&d for sony or m$ STFU because you seriously don't know what they are doing, DAMN! :P

[DEATHxTHExKIDx]

anythings possible. Even if they dont get to Avatar level graphics games like Metal gear solid ground zeros make believe they might.

[one2thr]

For me if a game looks 5times better than Heavy Rain but on an Open World scale, like REALLY OPEN, with a destructable environment similar if not better than Battlefield 3, and can support 1000's of npc's on screen from animals to humans to zombies, and vehicles from bikes to fighter jets with changing seasons, and night and day cycles with a 32 player never before done co-op mode, fighting monsters about the size of city buses to sky scrapers.... At 1080p at 60fps everything real time, on PC/PS4/Xbox720 then I can careless if it looks anything like avatar, because what a game like I just described would blow that movie away in terms of everything. Unless the story is lacking, and the gameplay is bad
(Yeah, poor grammar as expected when typing with a phone)

[Swiggins]

You have some hilariously high expectations....No seriously, you won't see a game like that for another 5 years at the very earliest.

[WeskerChildReborned]

Still, imagine a GTA that was about 10x bigger, had buildings you can destroy and enter, and just was more realistic.

Though, GTA 5 does look impressive for our gen.

[ZoyosJD]

Heavenly sword already managed 1000 enemies on screen.

I would prefer the level/style of destruction to be real time physics rather than select piece of wall falling down.

Night/day cycles can be expected depending on the type of game your playing.

1080p@60fps is given, if one of the consoles releases in 2015 4k would be possible.

32 player co-op would probably just need a server.

Dragons Dogma/FFvs13 style fights against GOW sized bosses transitioning from castle/city to rural area.

Something like this sounds absolutely insane, but I think it could be possible.

[one2thr]

@Zoy thanks, at least your being optimistic about the situation

Funny that some people took what I said to heart and in the wrong direction, and not as a "I'd rather" statement.

I liked the Avatar movie, but I don't see it to be necessary for anyone to waste resources to make a game look like a prerendered movie, when they can simply adjust what they accomplished this gen on next gen hardware. (THIS ALSO INCLUDED PC HARDWARE)

Heavy Rain was done on barely 512 MB of Ram
Halo Reach was done on barely 512 MB of Ram
God of War 3 was done on barely 512 MB of Ram
Gears of War 3 was done on barely 512 MB of Ram
MAG showcased 256 players on one map at barely 512 MB of Ram
Forza 4 was done on barely 512 MB of Ram
Uncharted 3 was done on barely 512 MB of Ram

What I mean by all this is that these games showed us what is possible on very limited hardware with the will power and imagination of talented dev's.

As for the Npc count, what I fail to add is that a game should have a decent amount of objects on screen that'll make it look more "ALIVE", with a real world sense of destruction. Meaningg everything you see within the game has a stress limit and can be broken. For instance, how many times have any of you wanted to bring down an actually explorable building(s) about 5 stories (for example purposes) in a real time unscripted setting, but with visuals that look better than mentioned Heavy Rain or even Deus Ex or similar to IcEnhanced GTA 4?

And once again, I meant this as an "I'd rather" comment/statement/discussion, and that it would be better for dev's to waste time to achieve these goals, instead of wasting (again) valuable resources to make a game look like said prerendered movie "Avatar".

But, this shouldnt stop devs from taking a step in the direction of making movie quality games, or even interactive movies that, visually plays like A prerendered movie.

Something to think about....

[taquito]

ps4 and nextbox won't be on par with a 2 year old gaming rig, let alone anything avatar like

expect unreal 3 engine ultra settings at 1080p with 60 frames, like pc

and unreal 4 at medium settings at 720p in some games and 1080p in others

unless you want $1000 consoles, you ain't getting anywhere near where pc is at right now next gen, its just not possible , i know people gaming beyond 4k resolution, personally 1600p is plenty for me, and certainly much, much more that ps4/nextbox will be able to handle and my pc is just good, not amazing, i-7 2600 and gtx 680, but there is no way a console in the next gen will even be close to that power, let alone what comes out next year.

[DeadIIIRed]

These companies would be able to sell a console on par with a >$2,000 rig for under $700 for one reason; economies of scale.

What costs an individual to make for $2,000 is not going to cost an international company nearly the same to make (when they produce thousands of them).

[rainslacker]

Thanks for reminding us that you like the PC and hate anything console based...I had forgotten.

[sak500]

To be honest the consoles don't have the overheads of a full PC with drivers and tons of services running in background and hence can match pc games easily on low medium level on current gen. SO in next gen i expect these consoles to do current gen PC quality games on medium level which is better than pcs from 2 years as you said.

BTW have you seen games on smart phones nowadays and with just arm processors can match ps2/xbox level graphics. IT's all about optimization and getting more out of a standard set of hardware unlike billions of config PC devs have to worry about. I still have pretty solid PC but prefer console games.

[Nicaragua]

the only way they would produce Avatar quality visuals would be by inserting the Avatar Blu-Ray.

[chukamachine]

@megaman that was funny.

It depends what they mean by being on par with AVATAR.

AVATAR is a movie with computer graphics mixed in.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

For a computer game that has amazing visuals, character models are impressive. But it's not open world.

People talk about computers having all this power, trouble is, it hardly ever gets put to good use.

Alot of PC games are just ports, with higher textures,shadows,rez etc.

When crytek made those amazing graphics for CRYSIS1 back in 2007. They pushed hardware to the max.

Now that max is alot higher.

I'm guessing the next gen of machines will come close in many ways, from textures,shaders,lighting etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Nd will lead the way.

[makemyteapunk]

I think its really strange that people could even think its possible for next gen to look like Avatar. What are you smoking? Do people not understand the amount of money, time and standard of tech that Avatar needed? You are crazy if you think it's even remotely possible.

[noorbert]

When developer says games can reach Avatar visuals next gen its just figuratively speaking. Of course it wont be technicaly on par, but it doesnt have to be. When feature film is done like this, there are no limitations, no optimalisations, everything is as good as possible to bare bones. Meaning even smallest leaf has physics, 4k textures and no limit on polycount. None of these things is needed in actual games, while the visual fidelity doesnt have to be lower always at first glance.
Its good asumption to expect next gen console will be 10x times more powerful as its like this last 3 gens. So imagine Last of Us or new MGS with 10x times more horsepower. Compare God of War 2 or MGS 3 to current gen best looking games. Apply this difference to next gen and i believe we are on par with current animated movies. It wont be technicaly accurate, but with all the faking it can get very close.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2...

http://www.thebitbag.com/wp...

[SAE]

im with you on that , but i won't expect anything to get disappointed , just wait and see , if i want something i just wish it lol , it's not like it will be changed if i complain ...

[noorbert]

Its safe bet not to expect miracles for sure, but i dont doubt games will look stunning next gen. First of all devs want to make best possible graphics, since it gives you edge over competition. Also there is no doubt games will look better than they do right now and even if they would look twice or three times better, i think it will be incredible difference. Anyway as you said, we can just wait and see.

[Drummerdude41]

The biggest jump into next gen won't be the physical appearance of how the graphics look to the human eye. It will be the engines in the games and how they progressed to give more dynamic and fluid gameplay. This also means that besides power to house these engines, creativity and gimmicks(wii-u tablet) will be what the companies are pushing for to separate their devices and attract an audience. Which is actually why the wii-u is right in saying that the ps4 and xbox 720 won't be that much more powerful. They will have better specs guaranteed but the engines being developed won't surpass the wii-u's hardware to function like many games did this generation in terms of the wii.

[Pintheshadows]

I didn't really like Avatar. I mean why was the Enterprise not invited to calm the situation by using Jean Luc Picard's impeccable diplomatic skills? It just wasn't realistic at all to me.

For that matter why did the Federation just stand by whilst Alderaan was destroyed?

[josephayal]

The next generation of consoles (ONLY PS4/XBOX720) will mark the end of dedicated gaming machines

[ajax17]

I really don't care as much about graphics anymore. Just give me smarter AI

[violents]

"A recent article on Cinemablend quotes Chris Doran, the co-founder of Geometrics, a middleware company currently developing technology for the next generation of consoles, as saying that new consoles like the Xbox 720 and PlayStation 4 will offer graphics comparable to the James Cameron movie."

So a dev for next gen tech says this and we are supposed to believe the guy that wrote this article because, well i dont know why. Wheres your facts or proof that it wont be able to. This is purely some journalist's(if you can call them that) opionion.

I'm not saying it will but i've seen some pretty good looking games this gen and to get people to spend the money on next gen its got to look better because that's you first impression for a gamer, does it look cool. If my video games looked even close to avatar i would be extatic.

[Pintheshadows]

Haha, opionion. That's a good typo.

I think this article is unnecessary as it only takes common sense to work out that games won't surpass the visuals in Avatar for a while yet. I don't really see it as news worthy whether a developer has claimed it's the case or not.

Games and films should really be kept separate in all discussions. They're vastly different mediums. And when they collide you get things like the Far Cry film.

[violents]

Your right on one hand but not the other, I'm not saying you can exactly duplicate Film grade cgi, however and the quote from the article says the same you should be able to get damn close to it. And really you dont have to get the exact same because the way a video game works as opposed to a completely pre rendered movie is going to have different problems to consider when looking for top notch visuals. Im no programmer and dont pretend to be knowledgeable on all those aspects but still I think i will listen to the CEO of Geometrics before I put a lot of weight on what some blogger says.

[GamingTruth]

i dont know about avatar graphics it doesnt seem impossible to me, but what i love is how people have tunnel vision into thinking that sony and microsofts platforms will just be consoles or not just a gaming platform from sony, and a gaming platform from microsoft

[TheDudeLasse]

Without a massive render farm Avatar would take decades to render out. We won't be anywhere near Avatar quality graphics for decades. Even Moore's Law contradicts this. Get a Grip on reality folks.

[1nsomniac]

Hurray for common sense!

...Makes a refreshing change.

[topekomsi]

WELL NO SHEIT SHERLOCK!

[Ulf]

The article is well-written, except for the "not for a few decades" part. Computer technology will simply not continue to advance past the early 2020s, until something "better" than semiconductors are discovered.

10nm is the limit on semiconductor tech. The latest i7s are at 22nm, and the PS3 was at 90nm.. Think about that for just a bit.

No game console or PC will ever, ever be able to render Avatar in real time. At least not in our lifetimes, outside of a physics miracle that allows us to bypass some subatomic particle mechanics that make sub-20nm fabrication very hard, and sub-10nm basically impossible.

Semiconductor tech is rapidly approaching its limit. This coming generation of consoles being "the last" is basically true, if you consider console generations to only be CPU/GPU power leaps.

[noorbert]

funny post. You got so called static look on how things develop around you, while reality is dynamic. Things and tech most of all doesnt develop in static leaps, perhaps for some time, but then comes innovation which changes everything. Just look back 30 years ago what computers were available in that time and you dare to make assumptions in matter of lifetime. You dont have idea what will be available in next 5 years more so in 20 and you dont have slightest clue what will be available in in next 50 years. Btw 50 years ago man first time step on the moon, just think about that and what we achieved since that time.

[jetlian]

man cant step on the moon now! Nasa doesnt have the foresight to make that a reality. Anyway hes wrong all the 10nm means is chips will no longer get smaller.

Its like going from boombox to walkman to mp3 player back to walkman then boombox. Thats if they cant figure something out.

[noorbert]

Nasa doesnt make flights to the moon, because there is no point, it would be only waste of money. But it wasnt about man going on the moon, you didnt get the point ( btw Nasa had just Curiosity landed on Mars, i guess it doenst count ). Point is you would have to be extremely arrogant to think that we have hitted some technological limits. If you think no one will figure out something else in 10 years or more, then you are wrong, its not opinion, its fact. Predictions like this were done hundreds of years ago on much more important subjects and all people were always wrong. There is always solution no one has idea about right now.

[DivineAssault]

It will probably be well into the 2nd or 3rd year of nx gen consoles to achieve this level of graphical fidelity.. They will need to be well familiarized with the hardware before we see these things.. Its nice to know it will happen though

[TacticAce]

We are already close this generation. Look at the facial technology used in games like LA NOIRE or Beyond: Two Souls, and others. So as far as facial representation I think it will be on the same level as Avatar. Lighting can and will also be there, There are already games with stunning lighting effects. It really comes down to texture quality for every single object in the game. Will everything in the game have a high level of detail? This generation developers have to literally pick the things that look good and have objects they deem unimportant look terrible.

[-Gespenst-]

We'll probably see CGI cutscenes of Avatar quality on next gen stuff (maybe better) but I don't think I'll even be alive by the time we have Avatar quality games in real time.

[3-4-5]

end of the next gen cycle....somewhere around 2019 we will have better than Avatar Graphics.

[sway_z]

The reasoning behind the article is pointless....anyone with the capability to 'think' will come to the realization that home game systems are at least (and I'm probably being generous here) 10-15 years away from Avatar quality visuals.

What we can expect though, is a representation of these visuals....kinda like a Parrot that mimics speech/sounds, as opposed to actually speaking....

That being stated...I for one am still impressed by the graphical fidelity my PS3 delivers to my TV.

[1upgamer99]

The Wii U has 2 gig memory one for the OS and one for games the PS3's 512 of memory that is shared between the OS and games..So I think Graphically Wii U is going to Look amazing and you are already "Impressed" with PS3. Can't wait for Wii U!

[sway_z]

@1upgamer99

I think I typed 'STILL' impressed.

I agree Wii U should look pretty amazing in the short term at least, if only because I believe the Next Box and PS4 will look significantly better.

I could be wrong and say what you will about Sony's questionable decision making (ludicrously high launch price, alienating hardware)

....but to my knowledge, Sony (and to same extent MS) have not yet under delivered on a technical level (given the price issues) a product designed to reach mass market penetration.

[1upgamer99]

I would not expect a console to have graphics like that. But who is this guy kidding? A $400 dollar console? PS3 bottom line console cost $499 at launch...that was for the 20gig version...So I bet you PS4 will be AT LEAST $499 in a year and a half when it comes out.

[TheMailman]

What a bunch of morons..

[WeskerChildReborned]

I expect PCs to look like Avatar before Consoles do.

[Ingram]

This is some very misleading stuff.

"Their processing power includes 40,000 processors and 104 terabytes of RAM", this is obviously combined power, which means each of those HP computers were able to manipulate and render avatar graphics; ¡they just DIVIDED the work into pieces!.
It just means the production team hired dozens of animators and codemonkeys to make it on time, there's no way in hell you can thread or make real ∑ use of 40000 processors and 104Tb RAM, James Cameron does not have a magic ubercomputer, realize this.

PS4 and 720 will indeed render graphics in real time on par with Avatar, which is an overrated piece of dung for scaring rednecks. Quote me on this, it will be easily done on a couple of years, on PC and consoles.

[vortis]

It's already done bro. They've got real-time ray-tracing working in game simulation RIGHT FREAKING NOW (google up Brigade 2 engine).

I wish someone would do an article about how real-life is now possible in game simulation, like, real-real life.

Avatar quality visuals aren't far off and we probably will see games of that quality during next gen.

[Ingram]

Cool! thanks dude, good to know.

[Kos-Mos]

But avatar is a crappy movie with crappy looking characters. Do we really want this?

[Gr81]

It would be financial suicide to do so. And pointless.

[madpuppy]

I'm really getting sick and tired of the phrase "here's why" followed by some opinion laden offal that doesn't tell me "why" at all.

It should read like this: Xbox 720 or PS4 Graphics Simply Cannot be on Par with Avatar: Here's What I think.

[Afterlife]

Avatar is a shit movie.

[xtreampro]

That article a few days back which talked about next-gen consoles producing Avatar graphics was actually talking about next-gen lighting tech that will reach Avatar quality in real-time (That doesn't seem impossible at all because we're nearly there).

Unfortunately judging by the comments left on that article NO ONE actually READ the article, which is why we now have a follow up article saying next-gen consoles can't reach Avatar graphics for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON!

[StraightedgeSES]

Why do people want video games to look realistic?

[GiantFriendlyCrab]

avatar as a movie sucked anyway, and it look fantastic fake. Crysis looks way more real to me,

[CYBERHATER]

Why are we talking about graphics the PC already has?

[DarkZane]

Still, the launch titles on PS4 or Xbox 720 are gonna be far beyond anything the Wii U will be able to offer in its whole life.

[SnakeCQC]

heavy rain looked better then avatar

[Murad]

Does it have to look good as Avatar? Hell if the Ps4 fixed the terrible fan and heating problems and gave more functions, I would gladly buy the PS4 over watching Avatar any day.

[IQUITN4G]

Well of course we wont even approach the levels in Avatar but despite falling exceptionally short on actual polygons, visual output will hopefully be much cleaner regards to how it is now and at a glance it may APPEAR quite close. We're several generations away from actual Avatar tech in realtime and in truth we wont ever need to given the reality of not actually needing this much geometry- overkill

I remember the same outrageous claims from Killzone2 fans with the hilarious reality of what people were claiming. In the end Killzone looked perhaps even better than the first trailer but of course was using vastly reduced polygons to do so

[Drainage]

whatever...it just about looks like it nowadays on the PC

[Adolph Fitler]

Years ago it was Pixar Toy Story everything was compared to we were striving for, that still hasn't happend, so now we are changing the target withouteven acknowledging the fact we failed at hitting our last target.

Mass gaming media need to STFU, you make yourselves look like fools everytime you come up with a new subject like this. We ain't getting anything near the level of Avatar graphics for a long time, if ever......so how about we get with the program & off the methadone program & set realistic, achievable targets. Like say, graphics 20-30% better than the Far Cry 3's or Black Op 2's, or BF3's of the world. As when were as far down as these games in graphical fidelity (& current games look like absolute CRAP compared to Avatar), then keep your goals within the realms of believability, as us gamers with brains older than 11, know that Avatar graphics are WAAAAAAAAY off in terms of gaming, first & foremost as console & pc afordability & technology is not even close to us, then not to mention even if it were possible for a machine to run such graphics in a gameworld, developers aren't at a level yet to even handle those kind of calculations in non-playable form, let alone building a playable, controllable world off of it. WAKE UP FOOLS....Stop typing this type of garbage, as we are so far off this, that it is NOT worth wasting time on.

[jacksheen0000]

I don't think the nextgen console will bring avatar level of graphics; but in a decade from now I believe we will.

The next paradigm(break-thru) in computer technology will be quantum computers; so no one can't really predict the future.

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

This just seems like a no brainer...

but come on... when you see stuff (mainly like) what Naughty Dog has done THIS gen, I cannot wait to see what they do with hardware NEXT gen!

[TheMrFraz]

Now raise your hand if you were seriously expecting actual gameplay to look like Avatar.

*crickets*

[ninjahunter]

The odd of next gen being as good at avatar are as good as that unlimited detail scam to come to fruition. Im giving it a 0% probability.

[gmgarciam]

Plus it costs like a gazillion dollars to make.

[VikingDaddy]

How is this so hot? It seems self-evident, and a moot point regardless. Next-gen games will look great, whether or not they're Avatar-quality.

[LKHGFDSA]

pffffff, I disagree with this article.
Especially the point of "computers can't/don't do it, so why should consoles" umm, haven't you seen? consoles lead the way for computer games. that's just the way it is. I'm sure we could have mind-blowing PC games, but all games made for/on PC are equal to console games. (of course there's the higher settings but you know what I mean.)
and then with the thing about no one being able to render CGI in real time, Square Enix has already f***ing done it. They showed a demo and said the game/demo actually used the same resources CGI films use, and it ran in full time AND they said it'd be feasible for consoles to do.

Seriously, f*** the guy for saying "nyeh consoles have to be weaker than computers", consoles are designed to do the one thing, PCs are f***ing imitations of consoles.

[HalfNerdHalfAmazing]

The ps4 & the next Xbox graphics will look like how pc games look today If you want avatar type of graphics you gonna have to wait til the ps6

[tubers]

Comparable yes. Crysis mods and Skyrim mods on high end (highest end to enable good amounts of AA) PCs look better than some CGIs done 10 years ago.

It may not be directly comparable to pre-renders but the visual impact from modern graphics are pretty great.

[cyclindk]

At-home processing power will not be used to produce Avatar-esque visuals anyway. The future will be and is in all in the "Cloud." When video streaming speeds like with the fiber lines used commonly in Japan become mainstream elsewhere, then those render-farms are what will be producing everyone's visuals. A console will just be a hub for sending and receiving the data as well as the other usual media functions.

At least that's a way it could be possible in the next decade or so.

[leogets]

Theyll invent an engine that will shortcut all the time and effort they put in for avatar. The engine will do all the work so then its just up to the artist designers. Give it a year or so ull see.

[Apex13]

whatever dumb idiots actually believe that to be the case need a clue and need help. Consoles can't even surpass pc's so please some one tell me why they would believe this.

Additionally, if they did, could you imagine how much it would cost to buy and so tell me which one person would do that and what business would do that just to go bankrupt?

[unicronic]

Call me old fashioned but I'll take gameplay ahead of graphics anytime.