EDGE - "You go through the cycle enough and you realise today's 'Oh my fucking God' is tomorrow's 'Eh, whatever'."
Terri writes: "In a recent video released by the creator of the God of War series, David Jaffe, we can see that Jaffe is not fond of the direction PlayStation took regarding the franchise, and in particular, Kratos himself."
Well, I personally think that Santa Monica did an absolutely phenomenal job with Kratos, showcasing insane character development in all the right ways.
I disagree. God of War went from a brutal action game where Kratos was slaying gods to a boring father figure. God of War 3 was my favorite in the series.
I much prefer the focused and purposeful with reason Kratos who still gets into brutal combat and still has to kill gods even though he tries not to. Past Kratos was just anger personified and did nothing but subvert any expectations of him being something else other than just rage.
2 is still my favorite. Everything about that game is top shelf design. the scale and scope of things like fighting the colossus of rhodes to awakening the steeds of time... just epic. 3 was good, but 2 is the high point of the original trilogy (for me).
The direction santa monica took for the reboot was less GoW (god of war) and more GoW (gears of war). The whole 3rd person perspective, having a partner (even if its his son), and lack of verticality with no more jumping and creating crazy areal combos... it was difficult to come to terms with but i managed. the story was good though, but i still give the nod to greek mythology over norse (and likely egyptian if that is where they go next).
I can see it either way. I agree that the series now has nothing in common with the original beyond superficial character appearances and general setting. They sort of used the IP to sell an entirely different style of game. That said the new games are well made in their own right.
I don't even think Jaffe really understood Kratos, despite creating him. Or rather, he doesn't seem to understand how he created the fertile ground for this kind of character development arc.
He was always a warrior, but he had a very human element since day one. He had a chance to protect his family again in God of War I and Ares took them away... Again. He knows he can't get them back and moved forward as the new God of War. Fast forward, the Gods betrayed him (though he was still sympathetic to Athena at the time). Eventually, he waged war with Olympus.
He was part of the pantheon and that would've been the entirety of his story arc where he oversaw war for all time.
But the truth this, Kratos has changed, but he largely remained the same. His two constants were always pride in his family and revenge against those who have wronged him. You take those two together (a threat to his family and Gods looking to kill him) and the direction he's taken is pretty congruent with who Kratos always has been. I guess you can say Kratos would just be a merciless monster for the sake of it, but the old games never explore present aspects of the character (e.g., what kind of father Kratos was). We got a look at that, and with a boy, no less.
I find the franchise did well to age with the audience. I was an angry teen when the original came out. Now I'm kinda mellowed out with a family and I just get it.
I think it did an excellent job of connecting with the audience as we grew up. It's a bit like Toy Story in that regard.
Agree. I liked GoW 3 the best as well. There weren't enough unique boss fights in the reboot.
Well he aged considerably. Define boring father figure exactly? Maybe your father was boring but don't put that blame on others.
As far as slaying gods ...you're right ...he went from god slaying to....hmmm god slaying.
The newer Kratos matured with the audience. They could have just kept doing the same game over and over but they saw it getting stale so they had to switch the formula...they did so incredibly well.
While God of War 3 is undoubtedly excellent in its own manner, the "boring father figure" part is something I don't agree with. For starters, if the situation calls for it, the old Kratos is back on camera, like when he fights against a particular Aesir god in Ragnarok.
He achieved his goal... he actually got the revenge he was so desperately needing and in the end what? It'd be terrible character development if he would just go to another mythology to kill more gods just for the sake of they being gods. They actually gave them a meaning in life, and even better, they got an amazing idea of how to create a new game with actual bealavility and a plot, not just merciless kill.
Agree 100% Kratos had about an inch of depth before the norse version. Now he feels like a real character, a real dad, with real reactions based on his experiences.
Wasn't Jaffe the one who got stuck on something easy in Metroid Dread and started bashing the game because of it? From what I played of GoW 2018, they actually gave Kratos some much-needed depth. I definitely plan to finally go through the newer entries once my PS5 comes in.
Jaffe got stuck with his young mind thinking and it really showed with his latest attempt in gaming "Drawn to Death" it was like a teenage dream that became true and also, sucked.
This whole video was essentially him finding comments to back up his own opinion. "It looks like a lot of people think..."
Yeah, well what do the review scores, sales, user scores, and completion rates on the last two say? Anything on that?
Nothing wrong with his opinion. He created it so he's earned the right to criticize. Review scores and sales have nothing to do with it. It's success was never in question.
You should probably read the first part of my comment. He's cherry picking opinions to support his but ignoring the plethora of other opinions.
Yeah, he's allowed his opinion, but his arguing method is to act like people just agree with him and not the diverse opinions out there on the subject.
People won’t like it I know but he’s entitled to his opinion being the games creator
I totally disagree but it’s not going to ruin the game for us who do like it
Yeh I may or may not disagree but he created the original and without him we would have no god of war, (or maybe one that wasn’t as good). So he can say what he wants in my books
Last I heard of him he made a black ad white game with a weird sketch art style. Similar to Sega Madworld
Haven’t heard from him since
Shame
Drawn to Death, yeh, played it at the Playstation experience, it was quite fun, an old school arena shooter. Then it came out, and everyone died quicker, so strafe battles gone. It essentially turned into die, insta spawn, use ult, get a kill, they insta spawn, ult you, you die, and just repeat that loop lmao, its was terrible.
I just have a problem with him saying they shouldn't have called it God of War because his opinion doesn't align with theirs on the future of the IP. That part I felt was pointedly petty.
Game director David Jaffe reveals that the original God of War 2005 was considered for a first-person viewpoint.
Im very glad it did not end up that way. In first person you would lose the scale the game has. That is something i really appreciate about the GoW games is the immense size and scale of the environments and how the camera zooms out to show it in a much grander view.
In GOW3 they did an homage to the fact it was supposed to be an FPS by putting you in first person right at the end, swinging your blades and bashing Zeus' face till the screen completely goes red.
One of the unlockables in the original God of War was a first person representation of God of War. A consideration for a spin-off/sequel was presented as a FPS in modern times. The military finds the dead Titan (Chronos I believe) and goes into the mountains where Kratos found Pandora's Box. Very interesting idea and gave me Clive Barker Jericho vibes.
Don't leave out a deck-building system and Kratos' fetch quests. "Make love to 12 different harpies".
Maybe the Egyptian era for the PS6 would switch to first-person just to keep things fresh
David Jaffe says he doesn’t believe a new game is in the works; “I haven’t heard a thing".
That doesn't take anything away from his accomplishments. He still created the franchise along with Scott Campbell. If a new game is made he should at least be brought on as a consultant.
I wouldn't be surprised if Sony has cut ties with Jaffe considering how pro-XBOX and Gamepas (bordering shill level) he has been in recent times. I mean he is known for speaking his mind (to his detriment at times) but he hasn't learned that a certain etiquette is needed in this line of business in order to keep relationships alive. That said, I don't know why he would be surprised if Sony went ahead and revived this IP without him.
@Ultra
As Jaffe has said, Sony came to him and connected him with the people creating the Twisted Metal show. They obviously wanted and valued his input. It would make no sense to not seek the same if they were planning to make a game as well.
Regardless of him praising Game Pass, he still maintains good relations with Sony. When his PSN account was auto-banned Sony reached out to apologize and said it shouldn't have happened. That doesn't sound like a company that wants to cut ties.
@porkchop
For the record, I'm a fan of his work and generally his opinions, and follow him on both Twitter and youtube. Now, I'm not saying they should cut ties with him, actually, they would do well if they seek his advice if they ever decide to revive TM. What I'm saying is that I will not be surprised if they actually have, seeing how critical he has been with Sony lately. He would go on how good Phil is and praised Gamepass while taking jabs at Sony for not having something similar. He was so into it sometimes that I couldn't help but wonder what would Sony execs who came across his content would do.
The whole PSN ban thing is irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make since he was more or less treated as any other customer and helped solve that. (being a public figure with an audience obviously helped speed up the process).
Disagree strongly. His last attempt at a Twisted Metal game was a miserable failure and he was basically given full control.
Jaffe has been overrated for a long, long time. He never grew.
The thing is, when a product is developed for a company, that company owns that product, regardless of who created it. If the individual who created said product is no longer part of the team, they no longer have any more to do with any future products created under that IP than anyone else who's no longer part of the team.
There is prestige in being the creator of a popular franchise, but that really only amounts to people knowing that individual created that franchise. Sure, Sony could look Jaffe up if they really wanted him back, but they're well within their right to not do so, and one of their studios could create a new Twisted Metal regardless.
@Unknown
No one said a new studio can't make the game though. I think people are misunderstanding what Jaffe is saying. He'd just like to know a new game is in the works and consult/talk with the devs about the new game and their direction.
It's no different than the new God of War. Kratos moving to norse mythology wasn't Cory Barlog's idea. That was Jaffe's. Jaffe talked about it during God of War - Game Directors Live back in 2011. Jaffe consulted with Barlog on the new game, they bounced ideas back and forth, and it led to an incredible game.
He has worked on the majority of the Twisted Metal games and made the last one in 2012 and is consulting on the TV show. The article doesn't mention it but in the video he says he thinks if there is a game they didn't tell him about it's most likely a mobile or short game related to the tv show and not a full fledged Twisted Metal game. He has said in previous videos about a Twisted Metal sequel that he doesn't think Sony will make it because they wouldn't make enough money for the cost of a next gen AAA game. The only way it would work was if it's full of micro transactions and online only and the fans wouldn't want that type of Twisted Metal.
IF a new game is in the works (I hope so), I don't care if Jaffe is part of it or not. There are a lot of talented game directors out there. Twisted Metal might be his baby, but Jaffe isn't a guarantee lock in developing the best version.
Id take remakes of the first two games at this point. PS5 needs games. Twisted metal was always one of my favorite franchises. They just focus on these big story heavy single player games, its so limiting. They need to spread it out make some smaller games why not remake the classics like twisted metal 2?
Ps5 has more Exclusives compared to its Immediate competition. If you are complaining about lack of games then you need to keep the same energy. The pandemic has also clearly affected the gaming industry and games in their early to mid development have been severely disrupted. This isn't only a 'Sony' thing. I know it's frustrating with Sony not having a ps5 future showcase event, but the silence doesn't mean they are in trouble or dont have any games in development. You'd be lying if you say there aren't any, Herman Hulst has already made it clear on the number in the works.
It's almost as if people forget about Sony's output in 2020, which was phenomenal:
Final fantasy remake
Dreams
Tlou 2
Ghost of tsushima
Miles morales
Astro bot
Sackboy
Demons Souls
13 Sentinels
Then 2021
Ratchet and clank rift apart
Returnal
Kena
Deathloop
Ghost dlc
I dont think they could've done a better job with game releases thus far, especially for the ps5.
The system has been out for 9 months and a pandemic has slowed development of games, you can't expect them to have a bunch of new games just yet.
Honestly, he paid for the system, he can expect whatever he wants. The only reason I'm content with Microsoft is Gamepass has been phenominal. Without Gamepass, I'd feel like I wasted my money.
Exactly - most everyone has applauded the torch exchange from Jaffe to Barlog with the God of War franchise. The originals still hold strong as pillars of gaming history, but Barlog has advanced the series forward with new breath and vision after its stagnation. I'd be absolutely fine with Twisted Metal given new vision IF handed to the right talent.
Jaffe is all over the place now. Whenever he gets brought up it’s on some weird shit. I wouldn’t blame Sony for leaving him out of the mix even though I still respect his older works.
Well his "revival" of the franchise sucked out loud, so not sure what he expects.
I'm really not sure whether or not I agree with him. His point is good that it quickly becomes as he says "Eh, whatever" but I know that when I play next gen consoles I'm going to have the oh my god feeling.
nothing has wowed me on console since uncharted 2 and i was only impressed that it was happening on a console, pc graphics from 2007 beat out anything that will ever happen on ps3/360
we DESPERATELY need new consoles to bring out the wow factor again.
the games are becoming stale repeats and remakes
we need new tech and new ip's and more detailed worlds with more realistic interactions!
Maybe because he has yet to make a AAA current-gen game.
Everytime I come to this site, I find that the breaking news bar is always those "next gen consoles" articles. Its ridiculous, whys is everyone so crazy about next gen? They just started making really outstanding current gen title! Let them max it out first