Carmack: Doom 4 Is So Big It May Not Fit On PS3 Bluray Discs

John Carmack of id Software warns that Doom 4 is likely to contain so much data that it may not fit on discs, not even Bluray.

[aviator189]

This game is going to be insane. I've got the same amount of anticipation for this as much as I have for half-life ep 3.

[REDHULKSMASH]

An excuse to make shitty console versions? They got 120 gig blurays now, but even so...50 gigs not enough?.....come on. Uncharted 2 was 23 gigs and that was a masterpiece

[Ducky]

... except size has nothing to do with how good or bad a game is.

It's like saying that a 1000-page novel is better than a 500-page one.

[Perjoss]

lol at the disagree of FatOldMan's comment!

There are many DS games with 10/10 score and they have TINY file sizes, I think they cap out at 256mb and go all the way down to 8mb :)

[turgore]

Remember, the ID tech 5 engine takes A LOT of space. Just look at Rage.

[blitz0623]

So use 2 blu-rays... and 10+ DVDs?

[Solid_Snake-]

yeh and uncharted 2 was linear with fake back grounds. could be done on the xbox on 1 disk. the blu ray wastes resources and makes the games look bigger than they actually need to be.

as for carmack...yes you are one of the greatest devs out there...but god are you ever happy with anything. every other dev company is managing amazing games this gen so just get on with it.

just because your games take a whole gen to make it doesnt mean we should have to worry why your late to the game.

[MidnytRain]

@Solid_Snake-

Nothing you said made any sense...

I mean, if you have mountains hundreds of miles away in the background, why would they actually render that. THAT would be a waste.

[Mc Fadge]

@FatOldMan and Perjoss

I believe REDHULKSMASH is referring to console versions getting lower resolution textures and models which would take up less space.

To take FatOldMan's analogy and improve on it - It's like having a 1000 page novel and having an abridged version at 250 pages. Sure the story's the same, but there's detail missing.

[BubbleSniper]

fail Hulk. Id has been working on new ways to develop games since Rages inception(before that even), breaking free of the norm. Doom 4 will showcase something so awesome that i can only refer you to Google to look up what Doom 4 is about.

I am expecting something major. and if Id is saying that Bluray is not enough then Kojimas words just got echoed from someone else's mouth

[badz149]

but everytime I read a comment from Carmack, he sounds more and more like Peter Molyneux!

[Disccordia]

Sounds like it'll be a next gen game for sure

[Arnon]

More like...

"I'll release it on PC, and wait another gen for the consoles to catch up."

[zag]

It's only the textures being super size so you'd be talking about 3000x3000 size textures.

Only the PC GFX cards can handle those textures, and even then you need the 3+gig ones to make any use of them as each one will be 500meg to 1-2gig in size.

people with the PC version will upgrade the texture in mod packs but I don't know if it's worth it really.

IF the game is going to be 20+ discs and you have 5 blu-rays who is going to bother with downloading 100+ gig game just to grab a few extra textures that only people with the very top of the line PC GFX cards can use.

[pixelsword]

"Solid_Snake- + 6h ago
yeh and uncharted 2 was linear with fake back grounds. could be done on the xbox on 1 disk."

...Yet, it seems that Uncharted 1 can't be done on the 360...?

At any rate, Carmack has already gained my respect for being honest about rage losing one faction because of the 360, so I am not doubting that he telling the truth in terms of a PC-equivocal-looking Doom on the PS3 (as Carmack said people said Rage looked like a high-end PC game, so I'm assuming that Doom will be an improvement graphically).

Yet, let us see how many discs it will be on the 360, seeing that one standard BD is equal to five DVDs. If Carmack is as rock-steady honest as he was for Doom, 360's Doom won't be on two DVDs.

[Exoil]

@badz149: Remember though that up to to this day, Carmack has always delivered.based upon his hype for his games.

That's a hell of a lot more than you can say about Moleneux!

[flankhim]

SO WHAT JUST USE A BIG HARD DRIVE!

[jeseth]

LMAO... Yeah Right.

Then how many discs will the Xbox 360 version be? 8 Discs?

SOunds like developer inadequecies to me.

[seinfan]

It's probably uncompressed audio. But this supposed size does pose a problem for PS3 games because the PS3 can only read up to a dual layer disc.

[DeadlyFire]

Well its more than likely they are just hinting at disc formats they believe Sony and Microsoft will be picking up for next generation of consoles. Like 120 GB Blu-Ray and HVD discs for Xbox 360? Maybe 3D Disks. Their aim is likely to push for 100+ GB disc format towards Sony and Microsoft.

[a08andan]

@FatOldMan

Well if it is too big, it hurts!

[paintsville]

Well ps3 has to get extra content to make up for the ps3's pitiful performance. Dropped frames, torn frames, dumbed down effects, etc. I mean Carmack already said that PS3 was SECOND best console and 360 was the BEST console (FACT). Oh it's a good day to be a 360 gamer.
http://www.ripten.com/2011/...

[Achtung]

not even remotely true

[SilentNegotiator]

DOOM 4 must have a LOT of hallways.

@Below
When you suggest that, all I can imagine is a bunch of id tech employees discussing their next game; Someone then suggests a more opened up Doom 4 with less corridors, everyone looks at each other seriously, and then all of them simultaneously burst out into laughter like on a TV show.

[Chnswdchldrn]

for all we know they may be making the game truer to the older Doom games, with far more open environments full of a bounch of demons, which would indeed take up more space than a corridor shooter like doom 3

[STONEY4]

Last I heard in an interview (with the writer I think) about a year or two ago, it was taking place on Earth, and you would go through cities and such. I'm guessing more open environments would also go along, since it's not like Doom 3 where the whole game is spent in a research facility.

[SilentNegotiator]

Don't worry, STONEY4, they'll make sure that the buildings and rubble make convenient paths.

[aGameDeveloper]

Bubbles for the laugh, at least!

[scotchmouth]

Needs more hallways

[PickAShoe]

thats a good idea.. MORE HALLWAYS! xD

[BlindGuardian]

blu rays can have multiple layers, they can do 5 layers now, that's 125 gbs

[xCaptainAmazing]

Ya but more layers means more problems. It's bad enough the PS3's drive can only pull in data at 2x read speed. 5 layers deep you would be seeing awful read speeds and major performance issues.

A newer blu-ray drive would likely be able to compensate with higher read speeds, but they can't exactly just put a new one in. Would have to wait for next gen.

[Rhythmattic]

xCaptainAmazing.

PS3 standard drive is no slouch..

So I don't have to type it, heres a link..

http://au.gamespot.com/page...

[Christopher]

@xCaptainAmazing: PS3 BD is at a constant 8x read speed, which on average is faster than DVD9, which has a variable rate.

Multiple layers would allow for up to 22GB of data to be stored on a second layer that could be installed on the HDD or just be comprised of audio data, which is what takes up most space on discs right now.

[fr0sty]

Actually, there are 8 layer 200GB blu-ray discs available, though they currently cost too much for mass production. they do conform to blu-ray spec though, so ps3 should be able to read them with a fw upgrade. this is what i think ps4 will use as it's primary optical format.

[_Aarix_]

@frankrobs3

Apparently both consoles can't do crap. Their both heavily limited in completely different ways.

[Bull5hifT]

Wow bigger than 300 gigs, ive read theyve been able to do that for years and they could double side the disk for 600 Gigs , then i read Holo Disk did 500 Gigs , then i read about 1 being able to do 2 Terabytes..... Thats a big Headache of course as time passes tech will get more smaller and doo much more, im Excited to see the Ever Lasting Battery Technology Using Micro Fibers that always Make a Charge... A PS:Vita with a Ten Year Battery Life

[MEsoJD]

Just Carmack mentioning Doom 4 gives me a huge boner.

[aGameDeveloper]

Did it last for more than four hours?

[scotchmouth]

If so please consult your doctor. Remember to tell him that Doom 4 has caused an erection lasting more then 4 hours as this may be a medical emergency.

[PRHB HYBRiiD]

Can you say 6 xbox 360 discs?

[showtimefolks]

and they do have 120gb bluray disks now so no excuses.

[DigitalAnalog]

And yet, I'm pretty sure he would be able to find a way to put this game into 2 360 Dual-Layer discs at 16GB Total.

You've heard it from me first.

-End statment

[andibandit]

Honestly those programmers are no good, if they cant fit the game onto a Blueray disc

[nirwanda]

At deadlyfire i will be surprised if ms at least use a disk format next gen, i think it will be all downloads and something like a removable hdd for peope that buy games from shops and to keep retailers happ, and a system with alot of ram so there are no streaming issues.

[-Alpha]

There's a Doom 4!?

Also, not surprising. PC gaming is beginning to make that next gen jump. It's always ahead, but as this gen is seemingly winding down the PC is in the forefront of next gen.

Battlefield 3 will usher in next gen PC gaming, everything after (if it's not dumbed down or ported towards a console focus) ought to look more impressive

[LOGICWINS]

I've noticed that theres a lot of adversity towards PC gaming on this site.

[Ducky]

... ain't as bad as the adversity towards some other forms of gaming.

PC gaming is just a wildcard that the two main factions praise when it's in their favour, and bash when it isn't.

Also, BF3 isn't really doing much to usher PC gaming forward. It just has the marketing behind it, so they can claim to be doing wondrous things, but in reality it is not all that different from the rest.

[Letros]

More like animosity.

[-Alpha]

"PC gaming is just a wildcard that the two main factions praise when it's in their favour, and bash when it isn't"

You got that right.

BF3 is doing wondrous things: the multiplayer with full destruction, 64 players, and in-depth features with the new engine is something very impressive and consoles are beginning to get stripped just to compensate

[Solidus187-SCMilk]

lol. of course there are alot of people against PC gaming here. Everyone argues about tiny differences between consoles, but dont want to hear about how much better a PC game can look.

Its always been like that but now the difference is beginning to really show and the next gen of consoles is coming and that makes all that arguing pointless.

My PC is old I need a new one soon, Ive been waiting for diablo 3 and its finally here soon. Its best just to play on consoles and PC.

[vickers500]

Because the PC will always be ahead in graphics, no matter what. It's hard to be impressed with what a PC can pull off when it has endless capabilities.

But when you look at what developers can pull off with a console (RAGE, Killzone, Uncharted 2, God of War 3), you can't help but be impressed that they managed to squeeze such amazing graphics out of such weak hardware.

Also, where I'm from, most people don't even consider PC gaming as a viable platform. Honestly I only know about 3 real life people that play games on PC, and 2 of those people only play World of Warcraft. It sucks, but it's just the way things are.

[NeoBasch]

Um... I'm against PC gaming because it's not exactly fit for an ideal home theater setup, especially if I want to enjoy my gaming on a screen larger than 40" and more space for guests and speakers. Besides, I hate playing off the keyboard. The mouse is fine, but I need a more refined controller built for gaming. I guess I'll just have to miss out on all these big fancy-smansy games. They're too good for me. *rolls eyes*

Carmack needs to get his head out of his ass. Instead of getting more creative, he'd rather cop out. Nice talent. -_-

[fr0sty]

If PC can just keep from shooting itself in the foot with DRM.... but being an open platform means piracy, which means DRM (have to be online to play, for instance), it's a vicious cycle.

[ATi_Elite]

lots of rogue anti-PC comment here so i'll set the record straight.

To understand PC Gaming it's best to be a PC Gamer. The next Gen of PC Gaming is NOT BF3 but more like FireFall or Planetside2 which are MMO/FPS where 1000's of gamers will fight each other and the environment in real-time over HUGE game worlds.

Graphics in PC Games is a process that's constantly evolving. HL2/Doom3 to BF2 to ArmaII/Crysis to STALKERcop/Metro2033 to BF3 to Arma3 etc. New techniques and processes are always coming out but you do have games like these that just combine a tremendous amount eye candy to show off all the techniques at once.

Sure BF3 is getting all the hype but games like FireFall and Planetside2 are PC Games that will push the platform further ahead to it's "Next Gen" as the transition to the MMO continues and give Devs a taste of what's next for consoles which is the MMO/FPS.

So online all the time DRM is no big deal as more PC Gamers begin to play MMO's more than stand alone games which require a constant online connection anyway. The Next Generation MMO is the next "Big thing" and I got a list of 6 or 7 I'll be playing myself within 6 months.

and I'm positive Next Console Gen MMO's will be the main driving force of consoles.

[Big_Dom]

Having just recently completed the original Crysis, I'd say PC gaming moved to next gen some time ago, because that game looks almost a generation apart from anything I've seen on the consoles. Nothing touches it visually on Xbox or PS3. Anyone who disagrees with this comment is either a spastic, a fanboy, or just hasn't played the game.

[andibandit]

we still havent seen the true potential of the PS3

[MrAwesome]

50+GB, how many discs would that be on DVD?
Judging by the past 3 days of news it seems like Carmack wants a new console badly

[cannon8800]

like over 9000 or something

[d3nworth1]

Was that a Vegeta joke?

[cannon8800]

@d3nworth1 yes it was :P

[PirateThom]

About 6, but that doesn't account for, say, data that has to be duplicated across all the discs (sound effects, textures and so on).

[morganfell]

More than 6. You cannot do simple division and be accurate. There are textures and audio that must be repeated across multiple discs. Textures require space as does uncompressed audio. Depending upon game design, multiple maps may need to be repeated across several discs as well.

[blumatt]

Yeah, it's funny how some people at the beginning of this generation were saying that bluray wasn't necessary and was just a waste of money for the PS3. And now some devs. are really starting to utilize all that extra space. We're getting free games from a lot of EA games on the same disc (Medal of Honor.)

I hope that Doom 4 is as good as the old ones. It should be since they're saying that it's going to take up so much space.

[Istanbull]

You would need a massive dvd collection to fit Doom 4 on 360.

[ASTAROTH]

How about that?? Carmack wants a new console badly ?? Its FIRST current gen console game hasnt even being released and the guy is already crying. . . Come on how long I waited for a great iD game since DOOM3? But the guy is releasing a game ( wich I think will be amazing) and then start crying about the need of a next gen console?? Imagine if more devs do that because they dont wnt to "waste" resourses on current gen consoles. The gen may last 2 years the most!!... WOW!!

Keep working Carmack and lets the fanboys like Cliffy B do the talk... LOL!!

[ASTAROTH]

Hey Chocobo... Why so ofensive?? Is he your father or something??

I know he is a developer you dumbass!! I didnt said somthing bad about him. We gamers are the one who bough games no matter wich developer or console... so its not fair that after just his first game on current console, he is already complaining when there are other devs like DICE, Crytec and other 3rd party multiconsole devs squeasing the hardware they have and not thinking so much at what is or not posible.

Jesus you guys are so closed minded its funny!!!

[_Aarix_]

Cliffy b's a lead developer of a popular AAA title with a hot gaming girlfriend and all anyone can want. while your just someone with a computer and the ability to type. Haters gonna hate.

[Godchild1020]

So this will be the first game to take up more than 50 gigabytes? Lets see it happen Carmack.

That means Doom 4 will take up 6 or more disc on the 360? Lets see it happen Carmack.

That means there will be no cut content right Carmack? Let's see it happen Carmack.

[Dart89]

Wait but don't developers have to pay royalties to M$ if they use more than 3 disks or something along those line??

[tee_bag242]

Yes that's true. For every extra disc devs have to pay more royalties. Devs hate it. Microsoft also charge devs for DLC making it very hard for them to make it free for users. Like it or not that's how Microsoft roll.

[Peaceful_Jelly]

No, this mean that the game will be gimped to fit on the Xbox like Square did with FFXIII.

[montyburns000]

lol ps3fangirls still believe in that one hey? don't be so fucking stupid.

[yewles1]

@montyburns000 How is it fanboy talk when SE admitted it themselves?

http://www.gamingunion.net/...

[_Aarix_]

@yewles1 They admited taking content out to add to a sequal. they didn't point fingers at any console.

[Why o why]

'they didn't point fingers at any console'

read between the lines dude. Think about it for one second. Add the fact that ms charges for extra disks then get back at us with a response that doesn't sound like denial

[erivera1994]

Lol if the PS3 version has 2 discs, 360 is probably gonna have like 10 discs

[Der_Kommandant]

Xbox version 20 discs confirmed

[nanometric]

.

[Dread]

I bet that if the playstation version has more than one disc, the sony crowd will suddenly be ok with disc swapping.

regardless, this game will probably be one of the firts games for the next gen consoles. So it might not even come in discs.

[MysticStrummer]

Speaking for myself, not the "Sony crowd", disc swapping has always sucked and always will. Having said that, I'd still play the game. Having said THAT, I think there are big enough blurays to hold this game easily, but I'd guess using those would drive up the costs quite a bit. Then again... I couldn't get into Doom 3, so I'm not sure if I'd care if the game didn't show up this generation anyway. Disc swapping is at the bottom of my list of things that, in my opinion, make the PS3 better.

[Pootangpie]

PS3 version will probably have a mandatory install of 10 gigs onto the HDD

and I find funny that the SDF is calling out and pointing fingers at carmack but then again they have been kissing that blockhead Kojami for so long

[Hicken]

I think you mean Kojima.

[Mario4life]

ouch if it takes more than one bluray disc, i couldnt imagine how its gonna be on 360, hopefully they dont cut anything out to fit it on the xbox disc

[Workshyskiver]

He says nothing of the sort.

[Cpt_kitten]

can't wait hopefully after doom 4 they will do a new quake

[Burning_Finger]

Less talk, more work.

[aviator189]

It's just an interview. If you're building something, you've got more than enough of a right to speak your mind.

I don't see you running a multi-million dollar development studio, creating a top-notch game engine, and creating game worlds fans and consumers would want to see, while simultaneously being able to provide the public with interviews and info for those games.

It's not an easy thing, you know. But I'm guessing, looking at your name, you're just a flamer.

[DrFUD]

Wish DOOM 4 would have been priority over RAGE.
As much as I watch RAGE videos it still fails to excite me.
I'm so tired of the Road Warrior, Fallout, Borderlands scene and to be honest I never really liked it even in those.

[Raven_Nomad]

Wonder how long the install times will be for PS3? Hopefully it wouldn't be like MGS4, 5 minute installs for each chapter, I'd rather swap a disk quickly on the 360, that's for sure.

Doom 4 and Rage are clear reasons why digital download wont work anytime soon. Imagine trying to download a 50+ gig game, release dates would be meaningless, start downloading on a Tuesday and be done the following Tuesday!

*Edit*
@ PirateThom I'd for sure rather take 2 seconds to switch a disk then wait 5 minutes per install level like in MGS4.

Blue Dragon was 3 disks and it was super fast, Mass Effect 2 was 2 disks and again it was super fast. When I want to play a game, I don't want to have to wait 5, 10, 15 or even 30 minutes.

I see the PS3 trolls are out, only fair I put in my two cents worth.

Disk switching is preferable to mandatory installs and level install.

[PirateThom]

You'd rather have 6+ discs than simply inserting a disc and letting it install to the mandatory hard drive on the system?

Ok...

[Cpt_kitten]

1 second disk swap is a lot faster than a 1 hour install

but i know sony fanboys, the thought of having to get up and do such an easy task is so much work

mind you i do have both ps3 and 360 and play both just as much

[PirateThom]

It's a console, for entertainment, it's not supposed to require effort. Not that swapping a disc takes effort, but this is 2011 and technology exists to remove the problem of swapping discs.

[Nate-Dog]

Well if it worked like MGS4 installing each time you finish one section I'd prefer having a bunch of disks myself. I found the break in MGS4 chapters more of a "mood-killer" or interruption than changing disks on a game on X360 since it'd take 5-10 minutes every time, and even after you've finished the game and go back to replay it they still have to install each time.

[maniacmayhem]

So will the PC require disc swapping? Since no blu-ray for Pc's.

Why is everyone associating dvd's with 360 only?

[iamgoatman]

@maniacmayhem

On PC you don't run the game from the disc you pillock, it's all installed to the HDD. The only disc swapping you'd have to do is during the install.

[Pootangpie]

um actually yes anyone who isn't a 500 Pd couch potato would now this are that the SDF may be in denial

btw Um you do relize that MS cut the security and added extra space for future games on the 360 thanks to an update just thought I might put it out there jus in case you decide to do retarded assumption and blame the 360 again

[Gray-Fox-Type0]

he gave a perfectly good reason why swapping disc is much better then installing and waiting to play the game...yes mgs4 did wait times for each chapter, while if it was on xbox 360 with four disc you would be playing in no time rather then waiting.. ps3 owners owned.

[MOTY]

@ Pirate Thom

"It's a console, for entertainment, it's not supposed to require effort. Not that swapping a disc takes effort, but this is 2011 and technology exists to remove the problem of swapping discs."

I would hate to be at your place and see how pissed you get when you have to swap a disc in order to play a different game.

[frostyhat123]

I'm sorry Raven is making too much sense to you. He needs to back of the logic!

[DigitalAnalog]

"Doom 4 and Rage are clear reasons why digital download wont work anytime soon"

I wish more developers would do games like these.

-End statement

[news4geeks]

disk swapping is no good for people, like me, who have a herniated disc... I can't get up...

[Snakefist30]

@Raven ur a fanboy such as urself and ur calling other people fanboys!

[Shinuz]

Might not fit on a bluray disk?
My god how big of a download is it going to be on Steam then? hehe

[Pandamobile]

There's probably ways to compress the absolute hell out of it, then unpack it once downloaded. (Hopefully, lol)

[miDnIghtEr]

Imagine how long this MANDATORY install is going to be. I'm also loving seeing how all of a sudden having to switch between 2 disc isn't a big deal now. All the jokes flying about the 360 and it's 10 disc for the game.... yet nobody saying one word about multiple disc switching now for a PS3 game.

[Godchild1020]

I think because its not confirmed yet. He is just speculating on how much space it would take if he would use the super texture pack.

In this case if true, it would be the first and it might not be the last.

[ALFAxD_CENTAURO]

Imagine how many discs on Xbox is going to be.

[wolfofashes]

1.Carmack and mandatory install don't go along on the same sentence.
2.I don't believe that the game will be released in anything more than 3 discs because id don't like the absurd royalties that Microsoft charges for extra discs.

[Rhezin]

oh man I cannot WAIT FOR DOOM 4! yes!

[Mr-Dude]

Lol, they can make an Triple layer discs (100 GB) and give the PS3 a new firmware so the PS3 can read it..

Currently movie production companies have not utilized the triple or quadruple layer discs; most consumer owned Blu-ray players will not be able to read the additional layers, while newer Blu-ray players may require a firmware update to play the triple and quadruple sized discs.

So yes Mister Carmack, it is possible to put the game on 1 disc!

[gamingdroid]

Do you have any source for this?

Generally increasing disc storage size involves hardware changes in the laser.

[Mr-Dude]

Yes,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Triple layer discs (100 GB) and quadruple layers (128 GB) are available for BD-XL Blu-ray re-writer drives.[2] Currently movie production companies have not utilized the triple or quadruple layer discs; most consumer owned Blu-ray players will not be able to read the additional layers, while newer Blu-ray players may require a firmware update to play the triple and quadruple sized discs.

[gamingdroid]

First of all, that is hardly relevant since it is a very general statement (from wikipedia none the less with no source) and doesn't pertain to the PS3 at all.

Secondly BDXL has to be supported on all PS3s including the oldest ones.

Thirdly, an increase in storage size indicates a need for hardware change. See below for official quote from Blu-Ray association:

"Because both BDXL and IH-BD are specially designed formats with specific market segments in mind, **newly-designed hardware** is required to play back or record BDXL or IH-BD media. However, because the new media specifications are extensions of current Blu-ray Disc technology, future BDXL and IH-BD devices can be designed to support existing 25GB and 50GB Blu-ray Discs."

source: http://www.businesswire.com...

If all that fails to convince you:

"Before you get too excited, you should know that you'll need a new player to access these -- even a firmware update won't save the PS3 this time -- since they go up to three or four layers deep and will likely need a more powerful laser."

source: http://www.engadget.com/201...

Also from your very own source:

"BDXL discs are not compatible with existing BD drives."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Albeit no source, it corroborates with the press release from Blu-Ray Association.

Do you have a better source?

[Arnon]

Lol @ the disagrees from gamingdroid.

"No. Once I have a 250 GB blu-ray disc, I'll just pop it in my PS3 and it will work. Stop arguing. You're wrong."

Sorry folks. The PS3 would require a hardware update, which Sony isn't going to do. Like I said in a previous comment. if Doom 4 is this large, most likely it will only release on PC, and Carmack will wait till the next generation of consoles to consider putting it on them.

[gamingdroid]

Not only did I point out why, but I also provided sources. Disagrees don't change facts.

It is what it is! :D

[Reborn]

It sure is Carmack day.

DOOM 4, lets see.

[Jazz4108]

Be carefull gamingdroid you are talking negative about the super ps3 and it will lead to one bubble if you keep it up. Even though you ar correct and or just defending against the crap talked about your system of choice on n4g if you don't praise sony you don't exist.

[Foxgod]

Sounds like DOom 4 will be a next gen launch title coming sometimes in 2013.

[iamgoatman]

Yeah, I can't see it releasing for the current generation of consoles so the number of discs needed for the 360 is irrelevant. It's like saying Rage releases in a few months, image how many SNES cartridges it would need!

[solidworm]

does this mean the game might actually be any good?

[Foxgod]

Size got nothing to do with how good a game is.

[Undeadwolfy]

I think thats what he was implying.

[Neko_Mega]

Show me and quit talking.

Because anyone can say their game would be to big to fit on a bluray, but then again that is even a lie to.

Their is blurays bigger then 50GB, just PS3 only uses the 50GB at max.

[Heishiro__Mitsurugi]

50gb? call up Sony, they'll hook you up with more, Mr Carmack :). and.. ask msft to do a digital distribution of it 360 side..... lol

[slavish]

this will be on ps4 and the next xbox. If it is that large then what about pc? its still on dvd!

[TheMART]

Wasn't the ps3 bluray drive software upgradable to read more layers/100GB discs?

At least thats what I thought I read some time ago.

[xAlmostPro]

Indeed it is :)

[nightmarex121]

Holy fuck that be so awesome, but i thought the blu-ray got a big update before so it holds like 60 some gigs now i thought.

[EditorAtGNG]

It's Carmack. He and his team will probably find a way to "squeeze" DOOM4 on something acceptable, albeit a new console ;)

[rmedtx888]

Wow! that's a big game. How many DVDs would that take? How will they market that.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I am gonna call it now. Doom 4 will be a launch window title on the next xbox just like Quake was on the 360.

[TaxExemption]

that would be pretty cool

[TBONEJF]

DOOM 4 HELL YEAH! Doom was my first FPS BLOODY GAME as a kid. But to let John Carmack know LG did produce a 100GB DUAL LAYER BLU-RAY DISC. This game ia going to be MASSIVE.

[DJMarty]

@TBONEJF - LG hasn't made a 100Gb Blu-ray disc. It's Sony, Pioneer, TDK & Sharp that all have. Pioneer has gone further and has 20 layer 500Gb Blu-ray discs.

[STIINGRAYS]

Thats one thing i like about xbox, not having to install games, but the downside is the small size of the dvd.
I wonder how theyll handle it for 360

[TheCagyDies]

Already talked to my uncle a month ago about Doom 4, we both agreed that it is going to be a launch title for the next gen since Carmack claimed that Doom 4 is going to look three times better than Rage.

[Jocosta]

Make it download only, odds are idiots that got the Xbox arcade model would not want this game anyway, and the Ps3 has a standard HDD, sure the download would take DAYS, but oh well.

[R_A_LEE20]

Man, load times are gonna be bitch.

[SuperSaiyan4]

What about PC games that use DVD's?? Xbox and PC's are in the same boat as far as DVD's are concerned.

Looks like carmack is soo full of himself lately *sigh*

[Bobets]

LOL!!!!

If it can't even fit on a dual layer blu ray then that means Xbawx 360 version superior confirmed!!!!!

PRE-ORDER NOW AND GET 12 disc with your 360 copy! =D

[RevXM]

Well Rage didnt fit on one BD to begin with either, having several square kilometres of unique textureing in high quality wont really happen ANYTIME SOON. Rage was originally over a terrabyte in size if Im not mistaken.

The standard disc ps3 uses is 25 or 50GB.
But Pioneer do manufacture 400GB Blu-ray discks compatible with even the first gen Blu-ray players so BD are here to stay a littler longer.
400GB and 430MB/s read speed at 12x is superb, seek time might be the only problem, but well flash "cartridges" aint going to be affordable enough anytime soon if you are going to need such capacity. But I believe that Flash drives might take over for Blu-ray some day as the most apropriate game medium along with digital distribution.

Playstation vita is doing it right.

Pioneer 400GB disc:
http://www.afterdawn.com/ne...

[BeastlyRig]

Hmm So maybe PC is lead then! My 1 Terabit HDD is ready! Disks are old tech..

And thank god steam lets me pre download games before release!

Consoles are not holding back PC's power! Consoles are holding back Carmack's untapped power!

[Orpheus]

I hope those ancient dinos bcome extinct frm this planet earth wthout them rage ud hav been a better product bringing even kepler to its knees ......

[b_one]

He said once there will be no Doom and Quake on Amiga computers....

bs talk... as usual

[Orpheus]

Carmack the GOD of PC gaming is recently compromising for those shitty ancient consoles wth total power of around 300 GFLOPS where PCs start wth 1.5 TFLOPS .... this very thought pains ma head !!!

[BrianG]

But on a GFLOP to GFLOP comparison for game programming sake, the GPLOP's on those "shitty" consoles is put to more use.

It's called optimization. Carmack talked about it at Quakecon, saying that even though PC's are more powerful they have to use brute processing power to run the game at adequate FPS, resolution, etc....

Why? Because PC gamers have a plethora of options and setups, so you can't optimize for every single one. If you could, you would be experiencing video game visual quality that is unlikely to come for many many years.

Think about it, How many times more powerful is your CPU? GPU? How much more RAM do you have? Etc... etc.... Now what is the payoff for the many times stronger PC?

2 times the resolution? 3 depending on the game? 3 times more AA? Starting to see the picture.

[DFresh]

I'm sticking with PC anyway so who gives a f***.
:)

[MyNameIsNotRick]

. NFG in a nutshell...
Fanboy 1: My dick's bigger than yours.
Fanboy 2: Size doesn’t matter.
Fanboy 3: I have 4 dicks

[boricua82]

This made my day thank you Lmao

[boricua82]

I seriously doubt it will come out for this current console/gen if anything it will be next gen cause the current consoles wouldn't be able to handle it. So Sony fanboys please stop with your feelings getting butt hurt that the almost 5 year old console can't do everything.

[Harelgur]

it will suck to download that on steam D:

[Killman]

PC fanboy mental masturbation is all over these Carmack stories.

[ATi_Elite]

"PC fanboy mental masturbation is all over these Carmack stories."

Why the Hate? cause a Great Pioneer in the Gaming industry who usually delivers on his word is looking to push Gaming technology forward but you respond with Hate! If you were a real Gamer you would be all over Carmack's stories too if you knew how important the man is to the industry NO MATTER WHAT PLATFORM!

Carmack is NOT Molyneux....Carmack Delivers. So when he speaks yeh PC Fanboys and PC Elitist like myself listen cause Carmack is always working on something "Next Gen" which PC Gamers get to play today and not "Next Gen".

Here learn something!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[Orpheus]

At least PC fanboys got dicks to masterbuate nd carmack stories... 4A engine stories , arma ...... we pity others who even fail to hav erection

[Phantasm]

Could it be that a lengthy single player campaign (like the good old days) is returning?

[maxmill]

so ready

[Hozi89]

They should Package DOOM 4 on it's own HDD with a custom skin and all. A 250GB HDD with Doom 4 already installed on it. :)

[bligmerk]

CARMACK DID NOT SAY WHAT THE SUBJECT TITLE STATES!!!!

This editor at Hookedgamers got the sentence all screwed up.

This is what Carmack actually said:

"There is a decent chance we will fill the PS3 Blu-Ray with more data than we ship on DVDs for Doom 4, but we will have to see how much trouble it is maintaining two complete builds of the data."

He says the PS3 version of Doom 4 may have more content than the DVD version.

[jeegee]

sounds like an excuse before the games even half done........ "oh we couldnt fit in all the stuff we wanted to, so it sucks, sorry..." if the game runs to multiple blu ray then its prob a no-go for DVD. and the install would be prohibitively large for xbox users (and some ps3 users too). i call bullshit

Edit: just read above post. could be the case.

[JellyJelly]

Please, save it for next gen, Carmack.

[ColdNorway]

He's just boosting the fact that he's übermensch in game engine programming. He can say whatever he wants, but I bet both Rage and future Doom 4 won't be half the fun Doom and Doom 2 were. Doom 3 wasn't fun at all,sure it was moody and had a alien-movie like atmosphere,but lacked the balls to the wall clear cut action feast the first games had. The problem with id Software is the lengthy game development time each game has, by the time a game is finally released,potential buyers have played similar games years ago. Rage looks like a blender accident after letting a blind having a go at creating food in a new kitchen,take one part Motorstorm,add some Fallout/Borderlands and give it a fancy game engine. Sure it will create some nerdgasm, but most will say much ado about nothing.

[BrianG]

This may be taken a little out of context.

From what I've watched of his Quakecon key note speech and read in other interviews, Carmack is more than likely talking about the size of the entire original data source.

That would include the inevitable Mega-Textures that take up an obscene amount of space. The fact of the matter is, that data is not necessary, as we see with Rage, enough to be on the disc.

Not everything is included on the disc. I'm sure other games have insanely large original data sources as well, they just don't talk about them like Carmack is doing with Rage/Doom 4 now.

[ATi_Elite]

I'm pretty sure Doom 4 will fit on one Blu-ray I mean how many PS3 games have actually used all 50GB of the Blu-ray?......NONE!! Also maybe he is talking about the code before compression and slim-lining it.

Also I have GTAIV modded out like crazy and it's still under 25GB on my HDD (and looks crazy Photo-realistic).

I'm more interested in this Super Texture Pak for Rage PC. I'm hoping that really pushes the graphics to crazy levels and maybe gives us a glimpse of what Doom 4 will look like.

[tee_bag242]

Just give me the old school Doom double barrel goodness. Man the old dooms were so satisfying !

[josephayal]

Looks like DOOM 4 is PS3/ PC exclusive

[boricua82]

How so?

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

Wow, I remember the days when the Sony crowd had nothing but ignorant things to say about Carmack...

Im anxious to see just how awesome Doom4 turns out...

If there is 1 thing Carmack can do amazingly well, it's ushering in a graphical revolution!

and that IS where I have mad respect for Carmack and the gang at ID games!

PS = I know it would never happen. But man, I know 3D Realms went down... but I sure loved Shadow Warrior. Also, I really loved BLOOD by Monolith games back in the day. The amazing humor and all out brutality of those 2 games evenly rivaled if not toppled Duke Nukem in my book. I remember getting the Shareware versions before the complete full editions. I even remember having the Beach Party expansion for Duke back in the day. (Sigh) sadly it seems most the fun I had with gaming was back in the 90's... theres just a void where 360 and PS3 still just aren't filling anything for me!

[Horny Melon]

With Ids embracing of online pass I could careless.

[KillerPwned]

Yeah this can fit on PS3, Sony would just have to give ID the go ahead to use bigger blu ray disks.

PC is already covered no matter what but about DVD`s for the 360? I have no idea how they would pull that one off.

[razielsonofkain]

thats alot of cyberdemons :)

[zero_cool]

At the heart of Sony Computer Entertainment’s breakthrough PLAYSTATION®3 system is the Cell Broadband Engine™ (Cell BE™) processor. The Cell BE is a multi-core processor employing a PowerPC processor element (PPE) and eight synergistic processor elements (SPE) to provide supercomputer capability in a home computer entertainment system. The Cell BE is capable of 218 GFlops performance.

Sony, Toshiba and IBM co-developed the Cell BE for a wide range of computing and consumer electronics applications with the PLAYSTATION 3 being the flagship product.

Rambus XDR™ and FlexIO™ interfaces provide all the chip-to-chip connections between the Cell BE and its supporting logic, graphics processing and main memory devices. The PLAYSTATION 3's breathtaking graphics performance, including high-end 1080p video output, is delivered by the RSX Reality Synthesizer. Meanwhile, the South Bridge chip is responsible for interface and control of PLAYSTATION 3's rich provisioning of storage and communications technologies including Blu-ray™ Disc player, 40 or 60GB Hard drive, 802.11b/g WiFiTM, Gigabit Ethernet, USB 2.0 and Bluetooth® 2.0.

[zero_cool]

XDR™Memory Architecture and FlexIO™ Processor Bus Unleash the Power of the Cell Broadband Engine™

The Cell BE employs an architectural strategy of extremely high-bandwidth access to main memory in lieu of large on-chip memory cache. The XDR memory controller interface (XIO) on the Cell BE is 72 bits-wide and is capable of operating at 3.2Ghz data rates providing 25.6 GB/s of total memory bandwidth. Four 512Mb XDR DRAM devices provide for 256MB of high-performance main memory for the Cell BE.

The Cell BE employs a similar strategy of extremely high-bandwidth connections to companion chips to achieve unprecedented levels of performance. Rambus' FlexIO processor bus provides the high-bandwidth connectivity between the Cell BE and the RSX and South Bridge chips. In the PLAYSTATION 3, the FlexIO interfaces connecting the Cell BE to its companion chips provide an aggregate bandwidth of 40 GB/s.

[xtreampro]

I heard Rage was Terabytes worth of data compressed down to 21GB, if that's the case then Doom 4 could be many Terabytes larger than Rage and could possibly go 10GB or even more over the capacity of a 50GB Blu-ray disc.

The PS3es Blu-ray drive can't read any of the newer 100GB+ BD discs because the laser's too weak.

[Killman]

1. You do know that a terabyte is 1000GB right?

2. There are BRD that are being made with 100GB+ capacity that can be used from a firmware update.

[xtreampro]

Yes I know how much a Terabyte is that's why I said "I heard", but anyway I just checked it up on google and found out that the uncompressed version of Rage is 1TB, and remember every texture in the game is unique so this makes a lot of sense.

So yes I was wrong in saying 'Terabytes' and should have said '1TB'. But Doom 4 may be larger than 1TB so that's most likely the reason why JC said it wouldn't fit on one 50GB Blu-ray disc.

Btw it's a fact that the PS3es BRD can't physically play the newer 100GB+ BD discs due to a physical limitation, a FW update can't magically change the internals of your PS3.

[fireplace]

Rip it.

[CrimsonEngage]

I thought Doom 3 was the last Doom they were making? None the less, it's going to be awesome! You know id will bring their id TECH 5 engine and show it off as usual. It already looks great in RAGE, i can only imagine the polish behind Doom 4.

[wolfofashes]

I agree 100% with you man although it cannot be improved too much on consoles if we still talk about 60FPS,that's Carmack's words not mine,other than that looking forward to 10.04.11 and Doom 4.

[Rob946]

Can't see it filling a 50GB Blu Ray anyway but I can see it pushing it to near it's limit maybe.

[ForROME]

You sound like the guys from 1995 that said 8GB was huge and will be all we need for the next 20 years

[Rob946]

That makes no sense? I never said 50GB will do us for 20 years I just said that Doom most likely won't fill it?

[wolfofashes]

Funny how people like to jump the gun at everything Jhon Carmack has to say. He is one of the best engineers this world will ever see,yet people act like he don't know what he is talking about.It is quite obvious that id needs huge space because of the huge textures they will use in the game although the beasteneer known as Carmack will find a way to go around this small limitation...and for the people talking about MGS4 it uses all that space because of the uncompressed HD videos that the game uses in certain parts.

[jaklink]

Carmack pulled this same crap a few years ago when he made all of that controversy about the amount of data in Rage, even though at that point it wasn't even a year into production. So please take what he says with a grain of salt.

[wolfofashes]

He is complaining about space because in Rage he is using 4000x4000 textures for geometry,particles and models and probably will raise the resolution for Doom 4.Basically the man spend dozens of hours coding to achieve such a marvelous feat just to see textures lose quality because they need to be compressed...frustrating isn't it?

[jaklink]

He still shouldn't make all of these controversial statements until the game is closer to being released. With the amount of time id takes to make games, a lot can change between now and release.

[wolfofashes]

jaklink...I agree with you at the point that he should just stop complaining about things all the time,no two ways there,but when he is talking about storage space I can understand him simply because Virtual Texturing (read amazingly high res textures)is the very basic core of id Tech 5,do respect your opinion though.

[grayday104]

Can't they just put this on a console like onlive which doesn't require discs

[ndl1531]

wow if memory serves me right 5 years ago every body hated bluray and "teh ps3 was doomed"my my how things change now bluray is not enough just shows how technology is blazing fast and doesn't stop . really cant wait to see what the future brings. im excited and fortunate to have been able to experience gaming from nes to my first true love the original gameboy oooh how i fell in love with it was 9 years old when i got it in 89' maybe that's why i love handhelds so much i have em all but also have my trusty ps3 lol .

[1PC2PS33360]

it is not going to launch on current gen consoles so cut the 360 right out of the equation people!

There is no way

It will be pc and next gen console premire, with the possibility of a dumbed down, gimped, sub-hd port to ps3, wii U and 360!

[retro]

So how does he want to "deliver" his great game if he can't "ship" it?

[CrzyFooL]

That's what she said!

[one2thr]

Yes the floating eye ball, is coming back!! lol jk

[IHateYouFanboys]

to the guys saying the PS3 can just use higher capacity Blu-Ray discs: no, it cant. Sony themselves have confirmed this.

the 100gb+ discs are a Blu-Ray format named BDXL - what you can assume stands for Blu-Ray Disc Extra Large . BD is single/dual layer, BDXL is 3+ layers as defined by the official spec.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

now sony and other manufacturers have in fact confirmed that you WILL need new HARDWARE to read from these discs. hardware. not software. you CANNOT just update a regular BD drive to read BDXL discs. this is 100% undeniable fact.

http://hothardware.com/News...

itd be like chucking a BD disc into the 360 and expecting a software update to make it work. to go to a 3rd/4th layer on the disc you need a smaller more precise laser. you cannot upgrdae a laser eye to do that with just software.

[blakstarz]

Find this hard to believe.

[acemonkey]

cant wait for it the third one scared the hell out of me....but once i got the chainsaw i wasnt scared i just started it up and ran tho the game.I hope if the chainsaw makes its return there will be gas or limit times u can use it.

[SSKILLZ]

I applaud ID, that is awesome, maxing out a blu-ray disk ? Must be one badass game

[blackbirdi]

i don't now but i feel that john carmack talk to much shit in the last few days and exagerating ...

[DOOMZ]

OMG, I want this!!!!!!!!!

[BrianC6234]

Does Carmack realize Blu-ray can handle 50GB? I find it hard to believe a game would use more than that.

[ForROME]

But it will fit on 1 qudrillion DVDs so that a solution =)

Ha the days of needing large hard drive to install games is closer and closer, the days of optical are on their way out.

Hard Drive can grow exponentially while Optical cannot without huge R&D changes.

[Shnazzyone]

Solution, Don't put epic PC games on Consoles, it's just inferior hardware.

[Tzuno]

Ahahahaahahhahahhhhhhhhh!!!! this guy is good.

[TheCampfireSong]

I guess we're doomed

[witwiki50]

''Doom 4 Is So Big It May Not Fit On PS3 Bluray Discs''

but then again, it probably will, wont it

[bobkoolmule]

you can digitally download call of duty black ops or mw2 off xbox live you can erase the game if you need hdd space and reinstall it no problems unlimited amount of times.

so i dont see why they just dont release doom4 as digital download only on ps3/pc/360.

isp's will eventually be forced to uncap bandwidth caps because everything's shifting over to digital downloading anyway so might aswell help jump start it.

[Kos-Mos]

Then the game has to be good...

[Zanarkand]

My PC is deliberately waiting for this disgustingly beautiful nightmare to begin, that is Doom 4. Gonna have myself playing it either alone or with a couple of friends during midnight with lights out.

[IaussieGamer]

sounds like the 360 guys are going to have a very lengthy install to play this game and if not a lot of disk swapping.

[TheLegendsKiller]

BS!!!

[killerskull]

well i for don't care how big it is, it just better be epic for the size. as for disc swapping, i'm sure everyone here has heard of a game/s called final fantasy....i'm pretty sure i remember more than 1 disc so stop b!***ing about disc swapping because we've all done it unless you're a noob or a little kid.
ps i would feel bad if 360 had more than 6 discs because we all know ms would rape id for it therefore they will cut stuff out but who knows maybe ms might wise up and release their 720 beast early ie 2012....especially now that there is a call for the next gen disc space

[Toixer]

Sure, the text was translated correctly?
When I click on the original page it says
"There is a decent chance we will fill the PS3 Blu-Ray with more data than we ship on DVDs for Doom 4, but...."
Just wondering.

[deruy343]

The original Duke Nukem was a great game, the current one sucks big time. Original Doom was also an awesome game (arguably better than duke). Lets just pray it doesn't go down the same route!!

[xtremegamerage]

Seriously though, you need to look at it like this.

If RAGE is 60fps on consoles.

What would DOOM4 look like @30fps on console.

[Snowii]

they can slide doom 3 in :D

[XxPURExX]

lol at the translation error

[contra157]

There'll be more and more games that will be leaving content out from the xbox sooner or later because of its choice to stick with dvd