Senior Game Designer Paul Coleman talks gymkhana, weather effects and a possible return to rally roots.
The Xbox One Scorpio is coming later this year, and it appears to be a pretty damn powerful system. It's certainly powerful enough for most developers targetting the Xbox One base spec as to be able to get some extra juice out of it.
It's possible but no, because companies don't want to piss off both platform fanbase, and make it equal for simplicity in developing ports for console gaming. Finally, developers are lazy.
But all they will do is piss of people who have purchased the Scorpio .. (me) for not pushing the beast .... I will purchase the game when I see it at its console best.
Be realistic here developers are trying to make everyone happy. Especially PS4 owners over 60 million of them.
XiNatsuDragnel so basically you're saying you want parity for PS4 owners because it would hurt their feelings if Scorpio was better.
No Jason, he didn't say that.
He is suggesting that developers will want to do what is right by the majority and not a niche minority who feel entitled to something, that devs are not and should not be obliged to provide. By all means, moan if you are annoyed by parity but nobody owes you for buying Scorpio, but MS. They need to convince devs to get on board.
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sorry. they already said they would push it as far as they could. its simple to adjust the render output in the engine. the engine they use is scalable and they can adjust easily. most game engines are like this. thats also why its pretty easy to do ps4 pro patches. adding another performance target is minimal work. also... developers can't afford to be lazy. the nativity in this statement is borderline frustrating. game design literally goes threw so many checkpoints, and artists, and creatives, and QC. Its not like its like 5 dudes sitting around with a case of beer saying "eh good enough". thats would be the most expensive non-ROI operation in the history of gaming, and that studio would be closed promptly. sorry our beloved ps4 pro just isn't as powerful as scorpio and because of that scorpio is just going to perform multiplats better. theres no other reason than that. period. thats why I'm going to buy one. and I'm going to park it right next to the pro.
DiRT 4 Running At 4K/60fps On Scorpio Is "Theoretically"
Hahaha! What do we have here? Devs said "Theoretically". But, but, but Xbone fans said Scorpio will do every game 4k/60 if Pro runs it a lower resolution. How is that possible??
THE Scorpio can do true 4k 30fps that a given according to dev, now the question is 60fps and keep 4k resolution without huge drop is theoretically possible.
You are trolling way too hard lately. It makes you look incredibly insecure.
The devs said it is theoretically possible since they haven't done it yet. They haven't even announced a Scorpio version which makes sense since Scorpio has no release date yet. Expect to hear more next week when e3 rolls into town.
Xbox fans don't say every Scorpio game will run at 4k/60 just like Xbox fans never said "power doesn't matter" back during the res war. They said framerate mattered just like they say "it's up to the devs" now.
Haha...no we aren't, you're lying. You're saying that because that's what you hoped we said only so you can attack it the first chance a game isn't running at that spec. So predictable. MS has come out from the beginning and said Scorpio is a "true 4K" box...4K is printed on the chip...60FPS is not, nor has Microsoft claimed 60FPS in every game. In fact, Microsoft said it's up to devs how they use the power of Scorpio and only claim to push for native 4K in first party games.
Sony upscaling to 4K will look very similar to Scorpio if it's running native 4K just like the Xbox One upscaled to 1080p looks just like PS4 at 1080p. The only thing people can see is dips in frame rate.
The biggest factor that will separate the two is how the additional power is used. Sony is forcing parity with PS4 for multiplayer while Microsoft is leaving developers decide if they want parity or if they want to maximize the available power. The other thing we have been seeing is Sony is relying on developers to patch Pro support into games while Microsoft is using the hardware to enhance games out of the box more like we have seen on PC for decades. Devs will still need to target the hardware for maximum impact, but older titles will get a nice boost by the hardware alone. Sony also has a boost mode that does this, but to a smaller degree.
As for 4K@60, it's much more difficult to achieve than many want to believe without reducing effects, texture quality or using upscaling techniques. I'm running an i7 7700k with a GTX1080 over clocked more than I probably should be and I'm not hitting 4k@60 in many games. Racing games like Forza Apex are easy to lock in at 60fps, but older games like Batman Arkham run in the 30's @4k. When I throw in another $700 GTX1080 in SLI, I should get into the mid to upper 40's. The fact Scorpio will be able to hit 4k@60 in Forza is incredible, but my expectations are most games will need some form of upscaling for 4k gaming.
"True 4K" is just as obnoxious as "True HD" touted by Playstation fans at the beginning of the gen. More details/higher quality textures that need to be upscaled to achieve 4K would be much more noticeable than resolution alone.
Who said Scorpio will run every game at 4K/60? Quote, please? All I ever see around here is people like you saying that it won't be able to hit 4K/60 at all in a real world scenario and that Forza 6 was just a tech demo. I didn't realize MS sold us a Scorpio tech demo two years ago!
FYI, rumor has it that Battlefront 2 will be 4/60 too. Wonder how many other games will hit 4K/60... certainly not all but MS will probably have more 4K/60 offerings than Sony has Native 4K/30 offerings, TBH.
@Butcher
"But, but, but Xbone fans said Scorpio will do every game 4k/60 if Pro runs it a lower resolution."
Which Xbox fans said this?
@ Death
"Sony upscaling to 4K will look very similar to Scorpio if it's running native 4K just like the Xbox One upscaled to 1080p looks just like PS4 at 1080p."
First part, yes. Second part, a hilarious no. Checkerboard 4K is a vastly different hardware-intensive process to the quick and dirty 1080p upscale that Xbox One did, which crushed blacks and made image quality look significantly worse, from a sub-1080p source. With checkerboarding, you only get a slightly softer image, but is almost indistinguishable from native, unlike the XB1 upscaled to 1080p. It's obvious why you would say this though. You are likely right about how the additional power is used, which is likely going to be the key differential in head-to-head comparisons, which should be very interesting to see.
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@ gangsta_red
I'd like to know: which PlayStation fans on here were calling The Order 1886 a GOTY?
You should know why I say this. I'll see myself out. 😉
Looks like someone needs a dictionary. It means looking at the Scorpio specs dirt 4 running at 4k/60fps is theoretically possible. Go back to your psfake4k
@DigitalRaptor
Didn't I already show you this a while back.
It's the same ones who said the game was chalk filled with choice-driven QTE, CQC combat and the kicker...adventure exploration/survival horror elements...now who could those fans have been? *insert emoji*
I'll show you the exit.
@Death
Quote :
The other thing we have been seeing is Sony is relying on developers to patch Pro support into games while Microsoft is using the hardware to enhance games out of the box.
.......
You're so wrong on this. Scorpio won't run older games at higher graphical settings, res and fps unless games are patched,
So you don't want any dev to take advantage of the scorpio's extra power but you want them to for the ps4 pro , isn't that asking for parity though which was something many complain about
"May use Dynamic Resolution"
But I thought people said this was the fabled deity of consoles? It's almost like people have oversold and overhyped this thing??? /s
He talking about the ps4 and xbox one version using Dyanmic Resolution to reach 60fps not Scorpio.
He also confirmed that the PS4 and Xbox One versions will be targeting 60fps and in order to achieve that they may be using dynamic resolution. “60fps is the most important thing for us. Our aim is to run it at 1080p as much as we can, but we dynamically drop the resolution to maintain the framerate if we have to.”
This from the article
I'm almost able to win the FIA rallycross championship master difficulty in Dirt Rally. Dirt 4 is going to be the most illmatic mac attack on four wheels :0
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Fluff.
Let's just wait till after e3 when we can get actual and factual information about Scorpio's proposed benefits from development teams.
Codemasters confirmed that DiRT 4, the rally game due to release in June, will have cranked up settings on PS4 Pro and probably Scorpio, too.
4k on scorpio but what this game should be focusing on is a steady 60fps on both the pro and scorpio.
This generation 60fps is a no go with the CPUs if xbox Scorpio has similar CPU to the xbox one then pro and Scorpio both will struggle with 60fps.
You can have the most powerful GPU in the world but it dosnt mean nothing if the CPU is so underpowered.
Games for the remainder of this generation will just focus on 30fps and upscaled to 4K at high settings even on the Scorpio, more titles might reach 4K native but will not be 60fps unless they put a more powerful CPU in it.
The game from driveclub and motorstorm team means business!!
I need to watch this one closely it's made by one of my favorite developers out there
Fist I would like to say Forza 6 was 60fps and 1080p native. Next I would like to say I would be shocked beyond belief if Scorpio has the same CPU as X1. Phil said upgrade will not be minor and that it will be 4K capable without compromise.
@seanpitt23
"This generation 60fps is a no go with the CPUs if xbox Scorpio has similar CPU to the xbox one then pro and Scorpio both will struggle with 60fps. "
Microsoft has a strong focus on multiplayer so most of Xbox One first party games are performance first resolution second. That´s why you have games like Halo 5 and Gears of War 4 which both features dinamyc resolution so when under stress the console scales down resolution to maintain stable framerate.
With the exception of a few games like Uncharted 4 and Killzone that also focus on framerate over resolution on MP modes, Sony´s primary focus with the PS4Pro is resolution over framerate and THAT´s is the main difference between the Pro and Scorpio.
Phil Spencer talking to Famitsu about the difference between the Scorpio and PS4Pro: ” The balance between memory, CPU and GPU is extremely important."
http://www.dualshockers.com...
Also, Phil reinforces that 4K is not mandatory and devs should use the Scorpio´s power as they see fit.
So yeah, i´m expecting Dirty 4 to have a 60fps setting on the Scorpio. Maybe 4K/60fps
"4k on Scorpio"
Yeah, right! Seeing is believing, right now I don't believe it, not with the specs we know so far.....
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@seanpitt
The "CPU is the bottleneck" thing needs to die. It's only a bottleneck on multiplat games from devs who do not have the time and money to find ways around it by using non-portable GPU solutions...
@Aenea
"4k on Scorpio"
"Yeah, right! Seeing is believing, right now I don't believe it, not with the specs we know so far..... "
Monolith has confirmed that Middle Earth: Shadow of War will EASELY run at NATIVE 4K on the Scorpio, while PS4 Pro will probably do it at 1440p-1800p checkerboard rendering. That said, the reasons you have to not belive the Scorpio could run a LESS demanding game like Dirty 4 at native 4K is beyond me :(
"The "CPU is the bottleneck" thing needs to die. It's only a bottleneck on multiplat games from devs who do not have the time and money to find ways around it by using non-portable GPU solutions..."
You mean devs like Naughty Dog and The Coalition? Why both these games run at native 1080p/30fps on single player while 900p/60fps (Uncharted 4) and 1080p (dynamic on Gears of War 4) 60fps on multiplayer? What´s causing the bottleneck here? Care to explain?
@Aenea
"Care to show me a source where Monolith said that Shadow of War will EASILY be running at native 4k on the Scorpio?"
Really its the same old (but modified) Lilith Engine from Shadow of Mordor :P
"Am not saying it won't be possible, heck Shadow of Mordor is running on native 4k on the PS4 Pro already, but people need to be careful with their expectations of the Scorpio since I don't think the difference between Pro versions and Scorpio versions of any multiplat will be all that huge."
Correction: SoM runs at native 4K dynamic on the PS4Pro.Now, how can you assume the difference will be minimal when we don´t know the Scorpio´s final specs?
"And I'm not really sure what you're trying to say about the "CPU bottleneck". What, according to you, is the CPU preventing those 2 games from doing, exactly?
Both games have a steady fps in either mode, the SP modes prioritise graphics over framerate hence why they can't hit 60fps, if they lowered the graphics settings they can hit 60fps, as the MP modes actually show! That tells me that the GPU is the reason they didn't do 60fps in SP, not because of the CPU! The 900p@60fps with UC4 on standard PS4 (it's 1080p on Pro) tells the exact same story!"
If you have a GPU which can render pixels FASTER than your CPU can display it frame by frame, you have a CPU bottleneck!
"If Turn 10 delivers the new FM7 at native 4K/60fps on the Scorpio, you can bet that Codemasters will be able to achieve the same mark on the Scorpio as well. ;)"
"No, that's not a given, Codemasters need to do things that are portable across platforms and aren't going to invest too much time into optimising for each and every single platform or upgraded platform."
That depends on the platform and the how hard is to optimise and port the game for each one of them. We already know that studios will take about 8% more work to optimise a PS4Pro version of a game in comparission with the base PS4. If optimise and porting games for the Scorpio takes less than 8% of dev time, you can bet your life the Scorpio will be the lead platform for multiplat games.
Regarding Dirty 4 achieving 4K/60fps on the Scorpio
FM7 dev time = about 2 years
Dirty 4 dev time = about 2 years
Turn 10 employees = 300
Codemasters employees = 800 (included former Evolution employees) working on 4 divisions
Yeah, Dirty 4 at 4K/60fps is indeed to be expected on the Scorpio.
@Obscure
"how can you assume the difference will be minimal when we don´t know the Scorpio´s final specs?"
You started this, how can you know it can perform 2.8 to 4.5 times better than the Pro when the specs aren't known? Besides, what we know about Scorpio is the 6Tflops spec and that is the one that is used to render pixels, the higher that number is, the more pixels it can render per frame....
"If you have a GPU which can render pixels FASTER than your CPU can display it frame by frame, you have a CPU bottleneck!"
The CPU doesn't display frames, the GPU does...
"If optimise and porting games for the Scorpio takes less than 8% of dev time, you can bet your life the Scorpio will be the lead platform for multiplat games."
It doesn't make sense at all to make the platform with the least number of consumers out there to be your lead platform. Besides, you're still basing this on that porting to the Scorpio is somehow magically easier which it isn't...
As for the number of employees, well, that has absolutely nothing to do with it, they also need to make the game for more platforms, takes more time as well. Besides, not all 800 are working on the same game either.
So no, it's not a given Codemasters will spend the extra time and money to optimise to the hilt just for Scorpio...
Anyways, just let this stupid crap go, we will just have to wait and see what happens, we will talk then....
@moldybread
If Turn 10 delivers the new FM7 at native 4K/60fps on the Scorpio, you can bet that Codemasters will be able to achieve the same mark on the Scorpio as well. ;)
@Obscure
Care to show me a source where Monolith said that Shadow of War will EASILY be running at native 4k on the Scorpio?
Am not saying it won't be possible, heck Shadow of Mordor is running on native 4k on the PS4 Pro already, but people need to be careful with their expectations of the Scorpio since I don't think the difference between Pro versions and Scorpio versions of any multiplat will be all that huge.
Which gets me to the next part of your comment, you think it will be running native 4k on Scorpio but you also think it will only do checkerboard rendering at 1440p-1800p on the Pro?
Do you have any idea how much of a difference 1800p checkerboard rendering is compared to native 2160p?
That's 2.88 times the number of pixels being rendered!
And for 1440p checkerboard rendering it's 4.5 times the number of pixels being rendered!
I'm sorry but it's hilarious how some people can believe that the Scorpio will be that much more powerful than the Pro!
If Scorpio is able to run SoW in native 2160p than the Pro can easily do it at 2160p checkerboard rendered. Heck it can probably do it in native 1800p!
And I'm not really sure what you're trying to say about the "CPU bottleneck". What, according to you, is the CPU preventing those 2 games from doing, exactly?
Both games have a steady fps in either mode, the SP modes prioritise graphics over framerate hence why they can't hit 60fps, if they lowered the graphics settings they can hit 60fps, as the MP modes actually show! That tells me that the GPU is the reason they didn't do 60fps in SP, not because of the CPU! The 900p@60fps with UC4 on standard PS4 (it's 1080p on Pro) tells the exact same story!
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"If Turn 10 delivers the new FM7 at native 4K/60fps on the Scorpio, you can bet that Codemasters will be able to achieve the same mark on the Scorpio as well. ;)"
No, that's not a given, Codemasters need to do things that are portable across platforms and aren't going to invest too much time into optimising for each and every single platform or upgraded platform. Am sure if Turn 10 can do it anyone can do it given enough time and resources but it's not a given that it will happen...
It's like saying "if Guerrilla Games delivers Horizon Zero Dawn at 2160p CB then you can bet CDPR is able to achieve that too". It's not a given!
The 40-50% increase in GPU power means that it can handle 1.4-1.5 times the number of pixels on screen, no amount of RAM or faster RAM or faster CPU is going to help with that. More RAM (and faster RAM) can help to use bigger textures, a faster CPU can make sure that CPU tasks that are being done between each frame run faster making it easier for multiplat developers to squeeze more frames out of it without having to move those calculations to the GPU...
You are highly overestimating what the Scorpio can do and underestimating what the Pro already does...
from all accounts it looks like scorpio will be a much bigger upgrade because all sony really did was add a better gpu and overclock the cpu a bit. phil has said time and again that he doesn't want any bottlenecks and its already rumored to have 12gb of ram and i see no reason why they wouldn't also upgrade the cpu.
Most everything I see points to Scorpio delivering both 4K and 60fps.
https://www.youtube.com/wat...
The games rumored to be 4K/60fps on Scorpio when it launches are Forza 7, Splinter Cell, RDR2, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed Empire and Destiny 2. I hope they finally give us Battletoads and a proper Conker's Bad Fur Day sequel for Scorpio.
@ xanderzane if you think RDR2 will be 4K 60fps on Scorpio haha, that's impossible even with the talent at RS San Diego. It might be 30fps at 4K native and thats a might be.
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DiRT 4 hits PC, PS4 and Xbox One consoles in June. Codemasters’ chief game designer Paul Coleman explains why this is no ordinary racing game.
this game looks to be extremely impressive from a technical point of view
I'm not a fan of serious racing games but this one looks like it deserves a purchase.