150°

Miyamoto: Modern action games are too challenging

ONM: Shigeru Miyamoto has revealed the secrets behind what makes a good videogame. According to the creator of Mario, challenging gamers too much doesn't necessarily result in a fun experience.

Read Full Story >>
officialnintendomagazine.co.uk
Dark_Charizard4874d ago

Not as challenging as Battletoads or adventure island, but whatever.

thereapersson4874d ago

However, I felt that Demons Souls was challenging for all the right reasons. Any game can throw a ton of hard enemies or impossible game play mechanics at the player for the sake of "being difficult", but Demons Souls was the first game in a long time that really made me stop and think about what I was doing and that just because I couldn't beat something with minimal tries, doesn't mean it was anywhere near cheap. I remember the first time I finally beat the red-eyed knight at the top parapet of the castle, and what an empowering feeling it was to collect his soul energy. There was an even more satisfying feeling when I figured out he would follow me all the way to the magical bottomless pit, and accidentally fall in when he ran after me in anger.

<3 Demons Souls. I really hope that Atlus doesn't pull the plug on the online, because they'd effectively be neutering the core experience for most players.

Neckbear4874d ago (Edited 4874d ago )

Demon's Souls wasn't hard at all, though. At least not 'till NG+.

It based itself on not running around like a fucking retard and using the tools you can buy with souls to go out victorious. Flamelurker? Buy a spell, spam it. The dragons? Bow 'n arrows, my friend. Every other boss? They usually have a weakness or a "trick" you can get, then proceed to kick their asses without much of a problem.

Honestly, if anything, it kind of worries me that people this generation honestly think Demon's Souls is "hard" and "challenging". All it asked was you to not run around like it was fucking Call of Duty and to, uh, USE YOUR FUCKING HEAD. Guess that's just too hard for those mentally challenged, dear customers we have these days.

Go play Wizardry, or fuck, Etrian Odyssey for a current-gen example. Hell, even Brutal Legend in, uh, Brutal, was hard as balls in the Stage Battles, as well as Dragon Age: Origins in PC, to some extent.

Muramasa: The Demon Blade is another example you could use, at least in Shura/Shiguri difficulty. As AGhostFromThePast said down there, DKCR is another one, followed by Sin and Punishment.

thereapersson4874d ago

Way to take my positive comment and turn it around into your own personal bitch-fest.

And for the record, the exact playing methodology that you triumphantly tout as somehow unique to yourself (i.e. everyone else MUST be an idiot if they have trouble in the game) is, in no way at all, a secret to anyone -- let alone those who consider themselves "gaming elite".

Chill the f*ck out, dude.

Dark_Charizard4874d ago (Edited 4874d ago )

Perfect example of what? NES hard? Not really. Contra 4 is the only example of NES Hard that I can think of.

For this generation, Donkey Kong Country Returns and Demon Souls are the hardest games. But in none of the games will you find that you reached the second last level on your last life, and then continue from the very first again.

http://www.duelinganalogs.c...

Redempteur4874d ago

@Neckbear i kinda agree with you.
But demon soul is fun because you can find your way out by thinking more.
Who would want a game where the difficulty kill the fun ?

Demon soul is considered Hard because failling to use your head lead to a "YOU DIE " screen ...

Rot_in_Fail4874d ago

Yea, like NES without saves wasn't.

beavis4play4874d ago

neckbear - WOW, what a gaming stud you are........... and i case you don't get it - I'M BEING SARCASTIC. your comment makes you sound like a complete @ss.

i'm with you thereapersson - there were many moments in DS where i felt immense gratification at being a boss........and flamelurker was one of them

RedDead4874d ago (Edited 4874d ago )

I agree with Neckbear too, it's not hard if you take your time and don't treat enemies like they are worthless. If you do treat them like that you get punished. But atleast it's not cheap shi* like Cod series, that on veteran is just stupidly cheap.

Edit---although don't get me wrong, Demons souls is prob my fav game this gen sooo..

DigitalAnalog4874d ago (Edited 4874d ago )

I remember my friend spamming arrows on the Giant Knight. But like any good HARDCORE player, I don't exploit cheap tactics like that. I do it up-close-and-personal. Defeated the fool using well-timed dodges and stabbing him with a spear. (And it feels more rewarding when you do so)

The only problem I have with this method is the Flamelurker, I've got the skills but my weapons barely do anything at this point (time to grind).

Demon's Souls is good if you can fight it by understanding the behavior and movements of the bosses. Not just sit back lazily and shooting arrows/spell casting just because you can.

-End of Line

UnwanteDreamz4874d ago (Edited 4874d ago )

"even Brutal Legend in, uh, Brutal, was hard as balls in the Stage Battles"

That games only saving grace was the few jokes and the music. I thought it had MPD. Hard? Maybe but I beat it on Brutal and almost died of boredom. This game isn't even in the same league as Demon Souls.

BTW DS is an RPG so if you grind long enough then the game becomes incredibly easy. Just like most RPGs.

Akagi4874d ago (Edited 4874d ago )

@DigitalAnalog

This. Clearly, Neckbear's idea of tactics is spamming spells until the enemy he is facing falls over. I guess he'd really like Diablo/Torchlight/Divine Divinity. I think that taking on bosses on DS with your sword and shield is 10x more exhilarating than standing behind a rock and spamming spells.

I don't know. Maybe I'm the type of gamer he refers to when he says he's "worried" the [we] found Demon's Soul's Challenging.

P.S NG+++ here, buddy.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 4874d ago
4874d ago Replies(3)
eagle214874d ago (Edited 4874d ago )

When did reading become so hard for gamers on N4G? Don't comment unless you actually read the article! The title of the real article is "Miyamoto questions if modern games action games are fun." He never said what this dumb headline suggests!!!

HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE GAMER staying ENTERTAINED!

Miyamoto wants to engage the player from enjoyment to challenge. He even said "you are constantly providing the player with challenge" and at the same time some levels of JOY. He suggests players will get tired if always pushed the whole game. Some levels being sheer fun challenges and others being very challenging. He is right! This is why most don't finish some games this generation. Because the game was probably overhyped and boring with no entertainment level of satisfaction.

This man is a genius and nobody has made more of an impact so just give the jealousy a rest. :)

DigitalAnalog4874d ago (Edited 4874d ago )

Wait. I re-read the article.

NOWHERE DID THIS GUY STATES THAT MODERN GAMES ARE CHALLENGING.

F*CKING SUBMITTER MAKING FAKE HEADLINES BLOWING THINGS OUT OF PROPORTION. (**looks at Gran Canaria)

Here's the actual title at the site:

"Miyamoto questions if modern action games are fun"

-End of Line

SnakeMustDie4874d ago

Modern Action games are too easy and noobified compared to older classics and true hardcore games like Demon's Souls.

kasasensei4874d ago

Time for you to retire Miyamoto.

gon-freaks4874d ago

^

this..

The day this great man leaves us will be a happy day.

4874d ago
Bayonetter4874d ago (Edited 4874d ago )

Wow, how pathetic. Can't believe people are AGREEING with you, as if Miyamoto is all of a sudden completely uncapable of creating fantastic experiences for us all and contributing awesome ideas to games in development.

To tell a creative genius like Miyamoto to retire and "leave" the game industry should be considered a fucking shame. Just because you don't agree with his perspective on how CERTAIN games should be handling their difficulty as apposed to the enjoyment one attains from the game, doesn't in any way, shape, or form mean he should just fuck off.

Psychic_Waffle4874d ago

I agree. It's ridiculous and embarrassing that the people above think this.

And as usual, the title of this article isn't even a direct quote. People need to learn to read or keep their mouths shut (or their fingers tied, whatever).

madpuppy4874d ago

If Miyamoto is still the "creative genius" that Nintendo fans claim he is, why doesn't he create some real, totally new experiences that have nothing to do with stuff he created 25+ years ago? sans that pathetic failure Wii music what game has he created in the past 20+ years that is totally and completely creative and new that has rocked the industry?

when I say new, I am talking about anything that isn't A rehash of previous characters and gameplay. Nothing with Mario, or anything to do with the world of Mario,
Zelda and anything that has to do with the world of zelda. ect...ect..

Bayonetter4874d ago

Why does a man like Miyamoto need to prove anything at his age, especially after all he's done for the game industry?

It doesn't only come down to age, especially considering the fact he isn't in the position anymore to be as involved with creating games and new IP's as he was in his prime, he's got a lot more on his plate doing other things for Nintendo.

However he does manage to implement some fantastic new idea's into games already into development, like SMG, DKCR, Epic Yarn, Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime series, etc. Believe it or not he contributed a lot of the more memorable and enjoyable mechanics/ideas into those games, but, as said before, he isn't in the position he used to be in terms of game development. However, we have heard he is working on a new character/IP, so I'll guess we'll see how that turns out.

Knushwood Butt4873d ago

I've said it before, but if Miyamoto was really interested in taking his games a step further he would quit Nintendo and set up his own studio. Only he doesn't have the balls to do so, and instead just happily churns out corporate crap for Iwata.

I've lost all interest in anything he makes for several years now, regardless of how polished it may be.

Veneficus4873d ago

Spoken with glorious ignorance. What Miyamoto values is what Nintendo values. He's the creative driving force of the company.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 4873d ago
Psipunisher4874d ago

Was thinking in Demon Soul too.....i have a Wii and im dissapointed....... thank to Odin i have a Ps3 and a Xbox360

Show all comments (67)
80°

Nintendo's Massacre Of The 3DS And Wii U Is Finally Complete, Regrettably

Hanzala from eXputer: "The cruel hammer of Nintendo has fallen. Farewell, 3DS and Wii U, you surely brightened my life and many others; you won't be forgotten."

280°

Xbox's Preservation Step Sets A Much-Needed Example, Especially For Nintendo

Hanzla from eXputer inquires: "If Xbox can care about preserving its games and legacy, what exactly is wrong with Nintendo, trying to kill game preservation single-handedly?"

purple1014d ago

Ahh yes the good old game preservation of saving all your games to a removable hhd on the Xbox 360, taking it round your mates house, setting up multiple tvs to
Be met with “save data corrupted, please re download”

Or how about removing 360 games
From the store
, download them now or else, and, better hope to god that save data doesn’t corrupt, or it’s lost for ever

Nice one ☝️

Zeref4d ago

It's better than what Nintendo and Playstation is doing. It might not be perfect but at least they are TRYING. Unlike the others.

DarXyde4d ago

Trying? Take off the blinders for a moment, mate.

1. A failure to preserve games is just that: a failure to preserve games. Don't try to sugarcoat it: NO ONE is doing it properly. Better than awful is nothing to write home about.

2. At the time of this comment, isn't it the case that you need an internet connection to play Xbox games even if you buy physical discs that are hardly in circulation anymore? I don't have a Series X and I can't verify, but I think that is correct. I'm fairly certain you can at least play PS5 games at version 1.0 (not much of a win really when many games require day one patches). I think Microsoft's all digital, licensing approach is by far more aggressive than anyone else's. They really try to push you to game pass where you lose your entire library by umm.... Skipping a month of payments.

I don't think anyone is doing it right whatsoever. Don't get me started on Nintendo, who goes after anyone looking to preserve their games better than they ever would with extreme litigation.

Don't be a simp for any of these companies. Get it together.

PhillyDonJawn4d ago (Edited 4d ago )

@DarX never speak on Xbox again. You lost all credibility with your internet connection comment. Smh you have 0 clue and misinformed yet speaking on something you don't no squat about.

Einhander19723d ago

What has Sony done exactly? You guys keep deflecting to Sony but I am not actually seeing any results, and ai am certain nothing that you can come up with even comes close to what Microsoft has done and what they have tried and failed to do, like tie all your disks to your account on xbone.

Microsoft removed their whole indie section when they moved to the xbone because they were going to only allow games on the service that came from a publisher, id@xbox started after xbone launched and it only exists because Sony embraced indie and Microsoft was forced to cancel their plans and reverse course.

And every single game that was part of games for windows live including disk games (I have gta 4 on disk that won't work) so hundreds of games that use that DRM no longer work unless the company themselves patched it out which of course very few did.

MrBaskerville3d ago

Not trying. Tried. they killed of the backcomp program years ago. They set something up again, but sounds like it's more of an attempt to save the current library on whatever they are planning next. With luck they save everything and more, but let's see. I could see them killing off parts of the OG xbox and 360 libraries. Can't imagine that they would allow us to play Forza 5-7 in the future.

With that said, I do like what they've done and really wish they could have done more.

shinoff21833d ago

Zeref

So killing off physical media is trying what exactly. Ms don't really give a fk if you think they do your kidding yourself.

Profchaos3d ago

They are not trying this team is established for forward compatability the team is. It interested in preserving Xbox or 360 games.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 3d ago
isarai4d ago

Is that why Hellblade 2 is digital only?

Zeref4d ago

Just because it's digital only doesn't mean you can't preserve it. Just put it on an external and you have the exact same functionality of what a disc does.

MrNinosan4d ago

Guess you're trolling, but if you actually think that's how it works, I'd recommend buying some braincells.

mkis0073d ago (Edited 3d ago )

Volitile vs nonvolitile data. A disc will not corrupt either. A drive can be corrupted.

Einhander19724d ago

This is just a scammy PR move to distract from the fact they are going digital only and trying to push streaming and subscriptions only.

No gaming company has pushed harder to remove ownership than Microsoft.

Without discs there is no preservation, preservation can't be done by the rights holders it can only be done by the consumers, anything else is a lie.

4d ago Replies(3)
Einhander19724d ago

Anyone remember xblig which Microsoft removed their whole 360 indie section removing hundreds of games from people?

4d ago
4d ago
Zeref4d ago

Do you know you can put your games on an external and preserve them that way? There are no benefits to discs. ZERO. Idk why some of you are still obsessed with them.

DarXyde4d ago

Because games like Persona 5 exist. It's STILL V1.00. On Playstation, that's a win because 1.00 is installed on the disc—no need to download anything.

If a game does not require any updates, it's all on the disc.

Extremely low bar in the modern era, of course. It's not much of a win by any stretch.

But for now, physical media does have a purpose, at least on Playstation.

Einhander19723d ago

That is factually not how game licensing works, try plugging your hard drive into someone else xbox, It's not going to work, and it won't work if the licensing servers ever go down.

Einhander19723d ago

Anyone remember games for windows live.

I have around a dozen games, some on Steam itself that will not work because Microsoft shut off the licensing servers.

BehindTheRows3d ago (Edited 3d ago )

I do. I STILL have games (Gears of War being the big one) I cannot access because Games for Windows LIVE is total garbage and no one has held Microsoft accountable.

Zeref3d ago (Edited 3d ago )

You don't have an Xbox apparently. Because you can 100 percent plug in your external and play games from it on any Xbox console lol. You just have to be logged in to prove ownership.

Chevalier3d ago

"You don't have an Xbox apparently. Because you can 100 percent plug in your external and play games from it on any Xbox console lol. You just have to be logged in to prove ownership."

Damn how many times do people got to explain your idiocy to you? You can take a copy of Persona 5 like someone used as an example and play that game on ANY console WITHOUT logging in which means I can lend the game to a friend without internet and they can play my game. Can you lend your hard drive to anyone without logging in for them to play? NOPE. That is a huge difference and if you think otherwise then sorry you're an idiot.

Tacoboto3d ago

"No gaming company has pushed harder to remove ownership than Microsoft."

Ubisoft is literally erasing games people bought from their libraries... My PS1-3 discs are useless on modern hardware. Nintendo's re-published and resold almost their entire Wii U library, and the eShop is completely dead with no BC mechanism in the Switch software. Microsoft publishes everything they make today day one on Steam and Xbox/Windows. Sony only brings to PC the titles they think you might want some years later and Nintendo won't even design a functional long-lasting joystick.

You're absolutely trolling and not serious if you think Microsoft today is the worst offender.

shinoff21833d ago

Yay steam

Not everyone fks with computers though. The disc is still the best way as a console player. Period.

Tacoboto3d ago

How do Sony and Nintendo feel about these discs from 2001-2013?

Don't be stupid, you know Xbox is the best at this today.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 3d ago
Hofstaderman4d ago

Nobody wants this. Sales or the lack of it in the case of XBOX is very telling. I wonder how the adorably all digital series X will fare. Adorably dismal perhaps?

crazyCoconuts3d ago

Only time will tell, but for from someone like me suspecting that Xbox is trying to gracefully exit the console market, that "forward compatibility" team is trying to get Xbox games playing on Windows PCs. I mean, it's nice that they're not planning on exiting with a "enjoy your games while the hardware still works" message, so that's nice. They still have a brand to protect via Microsoft so probably feel obligated to have a better exit strategy.

Xeofate3d ago (Edited 3d ago )

That is not their plan, their plan is to transfer users accounts to the cloud.

Phil Spencer himself said as much a few months back, plans could have changed but I think people are reading way too much into one statement where Phil said he would allow Epic on xbox because he wants to be able to sell xbox games directly on other platforms. Aka, instead of selling Sea of Thives through PSN he wants to have an xbox store to sell his games on PlayStation without giving PlayStation any money.

Again, it's extremely unlikely that Phil plans to put PC on xbox and licensing would prevent them from just giving out other publishers games purchased on xbox copies of thier games on PC, Microsoft does not own their games.

crazyCoconuts3d ago

The thing that doesn't align with the cloud strategy is the giving up on exclusives. You'd still need strong exclusives for cloud streaming - it's still a "platform" , just with a lower upfront hardware investment. I feel like they've learned what PS learned with PSNow long ago. We're not ready to stream games and it's only gonna lose them money to try at this point

FinalFantasyFanatic3d ago

I would love that, I'd buy up some of the Xbox games if they could run on PC, like the Rare Replay, Lost Odyssey and Dead or Alive Ultimate, probably a pipe dream though.

Show all comments (43)
90°

Nintendo's War Against Player-Made Content Will Hurt The Company In The End

Danish from eXputer: "Nintendo has historically gone against player-made content and emulation of its games. This has done much to harm the company's image."

XiNatsuDragnel10d ago

I agree nintendo hire some these folks to help in your games it'll help imo.

banger8810d ago

They need to stop announcing these mods and fan remakes until they're finished. Finish it, upload it, and then if Nintendo dmca's it tough shit. Once it's online, people can share it around, even if the original download gets taken down.

Jingsing10d ago

True, but most modders need constant admiration during the process to motivate them.

PRIMORDUS9d ago

Yup, once it's a torrent nothing can be done Nintendo is helpless at that point. But it would be wise if they just had a site on the dark web, it's also easy to use with Tor and no one will bother you.

mastershredder9d ago

This is all coming from the mouth of short-sighted fandom and grifting madness.
No.... it wont. There is a clear defined reason why they don't. This is nothing new. Make your own shi7 from your own original ideas especially if you are trying to capitalize of it it. Duh.

Yeah, hire people that have zero respect or understanding for an established process. Wow. Yep. Totally makes sense.

shinoff21839d ago

Those guys that made that sonic game got a gig from sega or something along those lines and that game was dope as hell. One of the best sonics as of late.