PSInsider Writes: We take a look at Softkinetic, a company which plans on bringing the 3D infared "RGB+Z" technology to PC, set top boxes, and even other consoles. Can their device succeed? We look at the possibilities, and challenges they face.
The most notable reveal would perhaps by the requirements of the Xbox 360 console itself. While Microsoft has insisted since the original unveiling of Kinect at the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) in 2009, then known as Project NATAL, that the device would be compatible with all Xbox 360 consoles, the revelation of a dedicated port included on the newly redesigned Xbox 360 model has sparked rumours of incompatibility, which were quickly debunked.
odd, i was led to believe it lacked an internal processor and so also needed a core to itself, if not 1-2 processing threads.
The article says nothing about whether the processor is internal or it uses the 360s.
Also, the notion of a dedicated port really lends nothing to the idea of older units being incompatible. I believe the kinect port is a custom usb port (think the original xbox controller ports) but one that will feed power and data.
Older models will require a splitter that will run off a single usb port (prob the back one) that will work for the data but not the power. That is why they keep saying it will have an external power for those systems.
As for the processor, combo of both makes sense. Using 360 cpu/gpu power to help calculate the finished product on screen along with the cpu in the kinect.
Remember people...this is not a cheap usb web cam (like the original live vision).
They say they are using 10-15% of one 360 P4 cores. I know that the Kinect we see today is a watered down version of the patented tech they bought and own. Maybe one day the " real " tech will be cost effective. It still is very impressive tech even without a super computer running it.
No, the previous artical said they removed a processor, but I would guess that it had more than 1 to start with. So it will have some form of processor still within it. Arm9 or Cortex M3, all dirt cheap now but powerful.
Does it matter? They showed Forza Kinect that looked amazing working with Kinect real time!
Are you just talking about how the graphics are able to look amazing while working with Kinect? If that's what you're talking about, ok. The game itself, though, well... I think I'll stick with the real Forza, with an Xbox 360 control pad. The limited-control Kinect Forza they showed doesn't look like it's worth any attention, in my opinion. Why would anyone want to control a car like that, with hands held out and holding onto nothing, with no control over acceleration or braking? Just seems totally pointless to me.
You guy know that the motion tech is from prime sense right? Please go to their web site primesense.com,and have a look at what they say the tech can do. It can read fingers well enough to type with each finger and can be used while sitting. No one ever said it has to scan the entire body to work. What we have seen from kinect so far is not all it is capable of.
Reading these specs and trying to compare them to PSeye is pointless, because they are different types of cameras and provide completely differnt types of info to the consoles (Kinect is a 3D camera and provides 3D images. PSeye is a 2D camera and provides 2D images). Per Primsense, the camera is capable of providing video at 60fps, but the 3D is 30fps. The specs for 2 players active is for full body scans. There are no specs given for people sitting and just using their hands.
This tech is obviously a work in progress and has yet to be fleshed out. I suggest all you N4G Kinect experts, research before you post you doom and gloom so you atleast have solid facts for you skepticism. You can also relax and see what M$ does with the tech insteat of pretending to know more that the people developing the tech.
The game was available for people to try on the show floor at E3 so yes it was real time. Wetter you like it for Forza or not wasn't my point.
That is up to the developer to figure out.
So pretty much the same spec as the PS Eye, although I thought the eye went up to 120 Hertz...
The eye goes to 60Hz i think. Regardless the eye should be capable to do any Kinect shown so far with less lag. (they revolve on a 2D axis and only use the depth tracking to separate players.) I am really disappointed by the tech and how it is utilised thus far.
More or less powerful we need to see the product.
So far it seem the pseye can do anything kinect can do.
2d 3d I not yet see the advantage.
no, the PSEye cannot do 3D tracking. Kinect can.
the PSEye does 2D motion recognition, Kinect does 3D motion tracking. they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.
Going from alkaline to lithium was a significant step for batteries, but at the end of the day it is just a battery. PSEye and Kinect are kind of the same way. At the end of the day it is a game camera - with camera games.
@Sheikh Yerbouti: your example is not really on the same scale of difference as PSEye/Kinect.
a better example using batteries would be the jump from standard batteries to rechargable batteries. theyre both doing the same thing - being batteries - but one of them does things that the other one cannot possibly do, which is be recharged and used again. it does everything the standard battery does, and more.
Kinect does everything the PSEye does (2D motion recognition), and more (3D motion tracking). no amount of software updates can change the hardware in the PSEye, and the hardware is not capable of 3D motion tracking as it lacks infra-red.
Yes i see your point but how you guys feel about the PS3 can be said the same way.
The PS3 may produce better graphics and be more powerful then the Xbox360, but by the end of they day its still only a console. Also inferior to PC :)
... PSeye can do 3d as you say... even eyetoy... they used shadows and other stuff to recognize it.
Move is also 3d...
Lithium batteries are rechargeable batteries.
Kinect isn't a true 3D camera - it can't render a picture of your butt if you are always facing front. It makes an approximate 3D model using visual cues. The PSEye can do the same, although it will be cruder.
Plus, just because the technology is different, doesn't necessarily mean gameplay will be.
@lams12
Yes, you're right. Similarly Kinect will have some good games, different from PSEye, only if Microsoft makes them. But they haven't made games too different from the PSEye.
Which is what i meant from the start. None of the games they have shown so far could not have been on the PS Eye.
"Tracks up to 6 people, including 2 active players"
I think now its official that just 2 ppl can play at the same time.
Only room for two anyway when you think about it...
but it can keep track of six people during a game in regards to facial recognition. I think that's impressive.
I would love to have Kinect built into my laptop, so only I can get in even without a password. Why is Microsoft wasting this on the XBox again?
still couldn't play it sitting down. Honestly, some guys are so easily impressed by copy cat technology.
i was at the engadget show and kudo showed its 3d tracking and when two people where on screen......one person would be red while the other would be green.......but as soon as a third person steped into the camera view two people automatically turned gray and it couldnt read their movements well.
what i took away from that event is that the kinect is pretty kool but for right now it can only work with two people(they could still be working on it)
There was no reason to mention move in this article. You are trolling and I won't agree with you even though we support the same brand. For all the people who agreed with you are clearly fanboys. Trolling is trolling and I never agree with them and I could care less whether you make a valid point or not. Because if this was a article talking about Move and someone came in here bragging about Kinect the PS3 community would have attacked that troll like a pack of wolfs on raw meat. And I can't believe 17 idiots agreed with your nonsense.
as there are not too many of them left anymore. It is good to see someone able to support a company without being a troll to the competition. +Bub man.
Yes! Now leave... Naw I'm joking. I'm not to sure about all the motion stuff anymore. I really like the arcade type games that require a gun though. I love to shoot sh$t. Duck hunt, house of the dead, crisis, silent scope etc!
It is interesting, i think it could be really something. It has the potential lets just see if MS goes the right route
Not liking these specs.
***Depth sensor range: 1.2m - 3.5m***
Why would this vary so greatly? I thought it was controlled by the IR camera?
***Tracks up to 6 people, including 2 active players***
So, it is now just a two-person controller scheme. So, that's equaling out about the same price as buying two PS Move wands for motion gaming.
***Tracks 20 joints per active player***
Meaning, no intricate finger tracking at all.
***Vertical field of view: 43 degrees***
That's means a 5'6" person would have to stand at least 6' away from the Kinect cameras if it's positioned at exactly the mid point of their body, further if it's lower or higher in order to fully scan the full body. That's a lot of room to ask for in many households.
====
I'm really disappointed if these specifications are correct. I expected a lot more out of this technology. As it is, it's doing nothing that wasn't done more than 5 years ago as it is. Microsoft, I expected a lot more out of you here and so far you've failed to deliver on it. You need to step up your game and vastly improve the software elements to improve on what this technology can do, otherwise it really is just shovelware.
Also alarmed by these specific specs. Also the 30fps camera causes a concern as it sets the lowest theoretical response time to 100ms. Demos so far have 200 with the TV lag according to Eurogamer. I was considering giving Kinect a second chance but after these specs no way.
How do you get 100ms?
1000/30!=100
Unless there's something I'm missing? If there is I apologise.
There is an explanation for that. In a nutshell the lowest delay a game can have is 3 frames. So it's (1000/30)*3
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
This is a good article that explains it.
***Depth sensor range: 1.2m - 3.5m***
===Why would this vary so greatly? I thought it was controlled by the IR camera? ===
I'm pretty sure they mean it doesn't sense depth closer than 1.2m (4') or farther than 3.5m (11.5'). I think you'd want that range to be as large as you could get it.
That makes sense, but is still baffling considering other IR cameras track depth from as close as one foot.
who plays video games on their tv closer than 1.2m? who plays further away than 3.5m?
noone, thats who.
It is obvious that the IR signal gets weaker with distance. It would make since then that it becomes less accurate at some point. You also have to be mind full that the IR is not being produced by your body so it has to travel from the camera to the bodies and back to the camera, which would reduce the range of the IR by at least half.
"I'm really disappointed if these specifications are correct. I expected a lot more out of this technology."
Have to agree. It would explain some of the lag. By comparison
PlayStation Eye
640 x 480 pixels at 60fps
320 x 240 at 120 fps
56 (upper body) or 75 degree (full body) field of view
4-microphone array.
16-bit audio with a signal-to-noise ratio of 90dB.
$30
With Facial recognition, head tracking, already in the PS3 SDK and games starting to ship with skeletal tracking the hardware of Kinect is quite low in some key areas. I was at least expecting it to match if not exceed the Eye in both resolution and speed. I mean it's 2-4 times slower in data capture than the Eye.
$150 (if true) seems a bit much for Kinect. Even $99 seems like gouging now. Will need to drop the price significantly.
cos of 43 deg * 66" = 48" = 4'(4 feet). I have not use trig in a while (15 yrs), so please feel free to point out any errors.
I get 4 ft, but 6-8 ft away would be optimal to allow for jumping and what not. This would be a problem in some countries, but is workable in the US.
The storage size is a non-issue and I refuse to try and explait that to those who are unable to do it for themselves. I do not work for M$.
"the only requirement placed upon the console when using Kinect is the need for 175MB of storage for drivers and other software, ...."
So, old Arcade units are pretty much screwed?
They come with 256MB or 512MB of internal storage, I doubt you'd want to use up to 70% of your storage for drivers.
And I really doubt you can use an external USB drive for storing the drivers.
These are things they need to tell us.
LOL! ok... read what you typed then think about it. Us the internal for drivers. Then use flash for storage! My point is that is only 10 bucks.
The point is still that the arcade internal storage is going to have a huge chunk taken out of it for kinect drivers/software.
I guess that's what you get for buying the cheap model. I have an arcade, but I also have the hard drive from my first (broken) xbox. So I'm good to go.
That's not just drivers and Kinect software... that is a complete dashboard update. If you have Kinect there is a mandatory dash update... so If you check there is already going to be a huge dash file on the internal memory, which will be replaced by the larger file.
Hmmm... I thought it was 4...and I knew it wasn't...so now that argument about kinect can support 4 players being a better value is in the dirt...
Only two can play at a time. You can have up to six-player.
Besides Microsoft doesn't want six people flapping their arms at once - legal reasons.
What does it mean that it tracks 6 players, including 2 active players? I don't have a clue what that could possibly mean...
It means only two people can actively play a game, but it can display 4 other people(poses and basic mirroring probably). That kinda sucks.
Maybe it can track 2 active users at a time, but also keep track of up to 4 other people to quickly and easily switch the active users.
Guess this confirms that you can only play two players simultaneous, but who has room for four people flailing around at the same time anyway?
it was able to track 42 skeletal points? idk, i could be wrong. But, the article said 20 per each player.
Maybe its ~40 total? 2 players @ ~20 points each, or 1 player with ~40?
I'm just guessing with that, but there could be some processing limitation that needs to split the work across the entire image/players. Its possible that it could be more accurate for single player games.
I have kids and if it will make my 360 experience even better than great. I mean like seriously Kinect isn't going to break the bank even at the imgainary 150 rumor price, ( which i hardly doubt ) Since Microsoft is trying to get the casuals to buy it
All E3 was a buzz about the various announcements, one of which was the official unveiling of Kinect (previously known as Project Natal).
While Microsoft is holding the pricing close to their chest until a later date, you can now pre-order Kinect
It will never sell! If they try to sell it for $149 it will fail! People don't like console add-on's !
Sound Familiar? Crow doesn't taste so good does it people? It's lighting up sales charts and if it wasn't for the new, sleek, slim, sexy Xbox 360S, Kinect would be number 1 all over.
Where's Move at again? ahhh yeah bottom of the list. Slap slap slap slap slap
its only:
$149.99
BUT IT QUALIFIES FOR:
this item ships for FREE with SUPER SAVER SHIPPING
O and buy it with Kinect Sports for only:
Price For Both: $209.98
How did I get 2 disagrees when I listed facts. How can you disagree with facts?
Anyways I am still not going to pre order this
Oh, just so you know. If you ever complain about getting disagrees on N4G and fill out another comment bubble, people will will disagree with you even more just for the hell of it. I know i did.
Anyway, when is Kinect coming out? If it's cheap enough, or i find a $99 arcade 360 i might get another one just to play Dead Rising 1 again.
Wow
Edit: Crapgamer, I've read your comment(slowly this time) and I think you're confused...no?
Is that sarcasm? People are pre-ordering this and it's selling like hotcakes.
Pre order= Not sold yet
A pre order can be canceled, so take it easy on the disagree.
The item is not sold untill shipped to the custumer.
If im wrong, please comment...
Personally I won't be pre-ordering : From Kotaku here http://kotaku.com/5565777/x...
"UPDATE: A Microsoft spokesperson told me after the publication of this article that the company is certain that Kinect gesture control will work for movies, ESPN and other "entertainment" features before the sensor is launched. As I originally reported, that is not an implemented feature yet. The spokesperson was not able to provide any update on the Kinect's tolerance of a person who sits while playing games."
So the only thing that looked mildly amusing for 10 mins - the media control stuff - is also not working (yet), and even if working, may not work sitting down.... So what we saw as MS's output from E3, is a bunch of choreographed vids.
I think a lot of pre-orders will be cancelled or a lot of people will have bought something they don't use.
r.
Sadly it will sell just as the Wii did. I hope that Microsoft sticks to hardcore though. From the looks of it, it's garnished completely for the casual gamers.
--Edit--
For the disagreer(s), what game is hardcore for the Kinect?
alot of people are about to be disapointed
i guess they think alot of new games will come to it
till then im good on it
There are that many people who would be sold on something that does not work. Yes I was at E3 and no Kinect did not work. It does lag really bad. And I'm not talking about a 1/100 of a second I am talking about 1/2-1 second lag.
If you ended up playing halo or any core game with this everyone would just suck. There are not going to be any core games, not even a 1:1 star wars game because the latency is god awful.
My Avatar continuously seemed to think I had jumped when I was only standing.
Seriously, I got flamed because I didn't have the perfect prices and added tax i'll fix that lets look at Natal.
Natal
150+taxes13% = 169.99
Or
40- (PSEYE)=Motion Control Games.
50+50 (Dual moves)- 50 if only needing one.
30- (Nunchuck)
---
120-170!!! :(!
Taxes+13%
135-192!!!!!
Move is the better deal depending on which games you are playing and if you have PS eye (No one on my friends list does). But comeon, thats too much to shell out for a controller, the price better decrease! Natal should of been 50 dollars to compete properly with the likes of Wii.
Both of these options are expensive if you ask me. How many people really have the PSEye? Move is really only the better deal if you only have one person playing. If you have a friend with you then you need to shell out for that second player.
I think that both Microsoft and Sony are crazy with these prices. At least with Wii the motion control came with it. For games like Brawl you could pick up a Gamecube controller for $15 from Gamestop if you wanted some classic control.
Dont forget that we still have to buy a compatible game for them. They'll probably sell those games around $40-$60 depending if it's casual or hardcore.
I only need to get one move and a nunchuck.
Funny thing is according to an interview with Don on GTTV its gonna be REALLY cheap, this is a cut I read on a forum:
Geoff - "ok, are we gonna like the price though?"
Don - "uhhh, I think you are gonna ..really like the price"
Geoff - "are we gonna be surprised at how low it is?"
Don - "uh, we sat through the other competitors press breifings and people were very please with our position, I like being with Microsoft this holiday.
Link:
http://www.gametrailers.com...
at about 12:30 mins I think
Link or it didn't happen!
Edit: You redeemed yourself with the link, but that "Don" is a VP of MS.
Anyway, I wonder if Blur will end up backwards compatible with Kinect? I saw the little ad was taking a jab at Mario Kart. Oh, and the Asian chick dancing...Hot!!! I bet she's the bomb in the sack, lol.
I like the guy but he seems really confident that MS will smash Sony this holiday season, I suppose it all depends on how much they want to put Kinect out for!
It depends on what games will support it properly and how useful it will be while playing said game.
even if this did sell fanboys dont see the point.
question isnt if its gonna sell, its will it work with hardcore games.
we all can see from the wii's success that if the company sells tons it doesnt mean that an onslaught of games for the gamer will come. no its simple stupid games that will sell and people will eat them up.
kinect will fail the gamer not the market.
MS knows how to lie to its consumers and advertise so that might work, but for the smart person who knows it doesnt work *the gamer* they wont buy it.....well besides the fanboy
BestSellers list doesnt equal top preorder list which it is NO WHERE on the best selling top 100 list.
LOL at your misguided excuse. This is almost as bad as posting a link to Amazon in the UK like another PS3 fanboy in another article trying to prove low demand when only GAME in the UK is/was doing Kinect pre-orders(at the time)
It is the new real next gen control solution and there is nothing like it on the planet
Of course everyone would buy it, it was expected
Funny that all Sony could do, was come up with another Wii mote which is so last gen and dated by now
And Kinect is mainly used in hardcore games like Fable 3, Milo, MGS Rising, Forza 4, Star Wars, First Child of Eden, etc and that is just for starters and only a glimpse of the future
I will 100% buy it the day Fable 3 hits the market, or with Kinectimals that seems great, then will play all those other hardcore games that will arrive soon after
The new real next gen control solution? Didn't the Eye Toy come out like 6 years ago?
and since when can eyetoy do what kinect can do it cant. You need to buy an add on i.e move kinect scans full body. I like the look of move and will probably buy it but it not as good as kinect theres far more potential for microsofts machine like ive said in previous messsages in time devs will get used to the tech and then the skys the limit.
You're very rude.
And Soda is correct. They'll be lots of trolling when all these big games/ accessories hit. The fanboys are going to have an overload.
It will be a sad day for gaming when Kinect becomes this popular. It is even sadder that xbots need to cling to the sales of a shitty camera to justify the lack of games 360 is getting.
crackdown 2, gears 3, halo reach, an exclusive from crytech,forza 4, fable 3, and a hell of alot of multiplats which if im not mistaken the ps3 doesnt have that many more exclusives. Even sony them selves have said exclusives are going to be a thing of the past get over it.
i'll just laugh at everyone who will own it if they find out that this thing doesn't work really well. cause as far as i know, microsoft is not good at hardware. but who knows? i might be wrong.
It could be another Tony Hawk Ride (gag).
We'll have to wait and try it for ourselves to make a proper judgement.
I won't be buying it myself however. Not big on the motion controls.
It's not lighting up any sales charts. Morons 35 - 45 who own 360's are getting Kinect because they think it's for hardcore gaming. I know about five of them.
We have 12 pre-orders for the Move bundle at my GameStop. 0 Kinect.
Edit:
Hardcore Sony troll?
Lol. I haven't been called that in years.
Live - JakeIsHollywood
I just think Move is a better technology. Everyone does.
You're spending $150 on this thing? Why?
wow a hardcore sony troll like ur self works at gamestop thats scary i bet you cringe every time a 360 is sold huh. You might as well quit because youll be cringing alot these coming months
Kinect is on fire im buying mines day one for the family. Its amazing even with all the bashing from sony trolls kinect is still dominating especially over that wii HD gimmick crap called move. Minority report was such a cool movie people cant wait to experience that coolness first hand only possible on kinect
Move has better casual games than Kinect already though...and it's cheaper.
Why would someone own Kinect over Move? That simply makes no sense.
Oh wait...
I told everyone the American media would get ahold of Kinect and promote it. Then, the mindless sheep I call "my fellow Americans" will go out and buy it.
Called it.
People that have experienced both Kinect and Move have said Move is a much better way to game. Look at any article!
Polow - You can do the Minority Report thing with just the PlayStation Eye. Ever hear of Operation: Creature Feature? It did it two years ago. Stop trolling. You have no idea what you're talking about.
It's amazing how blind some people are when there's proof right on their faces. If i saw Move like what Kinect is doing it right now, i'd curse it to hell for trying to sell us gamers BS.
Kinect fake E3 Stage Demonstration. (All recorded video + People mimicking the gameplay)
Kinect can't track sitting player.
Kinect's Delay time.
Kinect's Overpricing (software either).
I wish they will fix this problem but....now it's just another fail investment from MS , but it's still selling likes hot cakes. They really don't know that it's broken , do they ? :P
They showed the Sports game that scans the women into the game. It was not fake and if you watched that and still say this you are a fanboy.
-It wasnt that impressive anyway!
That type of mechanism in those games has nothing compared to what MS exaggerated about what Kinect's capable of.
Where have all the gameplay from the ads gone ?
IGN and several medias confirm that sitting player cannot be fully tracked by Kinect. It depends on the developers and MS told them to focus on making game for standing players. As well as navigating in the Kinect Menu, you have to stand up everytime for fluent tracking.
BTW , the pre-recorded Kinect show on e3 stage mimicking is true.
http://i48.tinypic.com/epk4...
I would save my $150 (if it's the real price) for a new xbox instead.
Couldnt it just be Natals 'quality' tracking,, that gif is hardly conclusive its boarder-line.
Regardless even if it was; alot wasnt, the poster tired to stretch any possible fact far further than it should of been.
you can't move your feet or you will throw off the calibration. Move has to recalibrate every time you change mini games. And the calibration takes longer than the wii.
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/...
Hmm, it seems that MS pre-record Natal games works for a hype.
Move shows allready the real gameplay instead of pre-recorderd crap from MS.
Are those people so stupid those days?
im sure is all M$ doing pre ordering millions to make it look like a success UBER FAIL
Many PS3 fans say it's just an PSEye. The PSEye can be found for less than $40. Natal may have better firmware and have some added features, but the equipment is very similar. The ZCam, 3DV's camera was going to be sold two years ago for less than $100.
http://cnettv.cnet.com/3dv-...
There's not much difference between the Z-Cam and Natal and Microsoft bought that company for only 35 million. MS has said it will be an impulse buy and $150 is not impulse for most. I would bet it will be $80 on the high end, but most likely $60. Like with consoles in the beginning, MS isn't looking for profits from Natal. They're looking for market-share. And if pre-orders are any indication, they will get that market-share at $60 or $80 after people were interested at $150.
It's like going to buy an item and the guy tells you it's $150. He then says "You're a nice guy so I'll make you a deal. I'll give it to you for $80". You weren't sure at first, but now you think you're getting the deal of the century and immediately buy. The whole time he might be making a little profit at $80. And compared to the competition, it is a deal.
The Z-Cam is only one depth sensing camera. Where as Natal has that and a normal RGB camera and multi-array microphone. So it's going to cost a bit more. Notice the 3 camera's on the front of Kinect? Cost's quite a bit to fabricate that amount of silicone. Not to mention Microsoft's general inflation on it's products, like their ridiculously overpriced hard drives for the 360, compared to what you can buy online.
http://web.archive.org/web/...
This is old 3DV info on the Z-Cam. It's been around longer than I thought. I remember MS commenting that it was based on old technology. None of the tech is new. The quality of the software is the key. I would bet that if iSupply did a teardown, there wouldn't be more than $50 worth of parts. It may be made up of high quality parts, but old tech none the less. And removing the processor was smart, it saved money. But now future generations of the Xbox can make Natal even more powerful.
IDG says: After putting Microsoft's Kinect motion-sensing camera for the Xbox 360 through its paces, I've come away a true believer--that it isn't for me, it's for my wife.
this is for my wife and kids. I will get it my daughters has already named the tiger cub in that animal game.
From what I can tell Kinect, Move, and Wii appeal to the casuals and kids.
My wife and kids would take any of them. Probably call them by the wrong names too.
I see more core games for Move from those 3, thats why I'm getting it
@Turin- I'm not getting Kinect, it's a waste of money. I'm not gonna yell at my tv to watch a video or movie, a controller is much more convenient
Mista T, I thought you were referring to Kinect. Just as well you edited your post.
It does look like Sony are going to push core games on Move more than I expected. I am still going to wait awhile to see if the games show up before committing myself to paying for one. But it does look more promising after seeing their conference.
@Mister T, can't argue with that. Sounds pretty sound logic to me. Maybe someone should tell Microsoft though.
not really, I'm a casual and I'm still buying Move.
Killzone 3, Heavy Rain, Socom all show that Move will still have the killer games to play and not just the crap casual 1s.
Although even the more casual games would be good since they are so accurate and would actually require skill to play.
Move will likely see use in many more core games than Kinect and Wii. Hell, Wii is probably used in more core games than Kinect ever will be.
According to some of the stuff I was watching on G4 yesterday, Killzone 3 is already running on Move on the E3 floor.
I was actually shocked at the amount of core games that Sony showed with Move support. I was dreading E3 cuz I thought MS and Sony both would have a buttload of stupid gimmicks to go with their controllers.
Good to know I simply wont need this. I thought the 360 was a hardcore console but there you go.
it had better appeal to somebody
at frjoethesecond above:
there is no such thing as a purely hardcore console anymore, each system has games that appeal to the casual gamer and both Move and Kinect are only going to make that fact even truer. Though it is also true that Movie seems to be trying to satisfy both the casual and hardcore gamer and because of that I see Move as the better choice, if you have a choice. That is not to say that folks wont buy kinect, some will, and with the install base of the 360 being very healthy, some may just be enough.
.
.
.Kinect showed nothing that the PSEye can't do. Kinect might be able to go above and beyond, however, everything they demonstrated isn't beyond PSEye's capabilities. add 'Move' and your options and experiences become 5 fold. M$ has the money to shove Kinect into homes, but that doesn't mean it will amount to much in the long run. if M$ wants Kinect to be relevant and successful then they better bring games that are genuine. unfortunately, aside from the dancing game, Kinect's "games" are pretty much just shovelware for now.
forgive my nativity but is there a major difference? are you insinuating that Kinect didn't show anything that even OLDER tech than the PSEye can't do? just wondering...
Where is the technical data that shows that the technology in Kinect is nothing more than, and can be done by, the PSEye.
If anything the Move is a Wii clone much, much more so than Kinect is to the eye.
@bviperz,
What proof do you have of that? The Wii started off going for the casual marktet. That isn't the case with Microsoft. Your argument is a moot complaint based on nothing. MS knows the core audience wants "our" games, and we'll get them. They are just bringing in more people, it is a busineess afterall. They can use it for core games as well, just give it time.
@dorkyfresh11,
So in other words, you don't have proof of initial claims.
You say that you want proof that it can do more, okay I have several examples. For starters can the PSEye do facial and voice recognition/control?
Does the PSEye have the ability to track (with the motorized head)a player. Or does it have the ability to do skeletal mapping and tracking. What they showed and what we've seen on the videos of gameplay; and from peoople actually on the floor playing it, proves otherwise. The real issue is that the so called "hardcore" gamers and fanboys, don't realize that or want it to fail just because it's Microsoft.
i'll agree that the Move is basically an evolved Wiimote and i have no problem with that. however, most sites tout about how much tighter and reactive the Move is over the other 2 motion control peripherals.
thing with Kinect is that, yes, it might be an evolved PSEye and it might be able to do MORE from a technical standpoint....but they haven't SHOWN it to do more. they've shown how accurate the Move is compared to the Wiimote....but Kinect hasn't shown off anything that the PSEye can't do or already hasn't done. you can talk all day about how much more powerful Kinect is than PSeye, but if you don't SHOW it then no one will believe you.
you want proof that Kinect can't do anymore than the PSeye? well......we want proof that Kinect CAN do more than the PSeye :P
Everything so far is static on a framed screen or on rails. It's another Eyetoy, admit it people. It cannot do realtime 3D without it scrolling forwards or staying still.
This however would have been REVOLUTIONARY in the arcade.
I bet people who will see the Kinect advertise never heard of PSEye before, most ppl out there dont have the knowledge. They see it and they want it.
They even buy it if they have no use for it, because the advertisement makes them think they need it.
R0me, unfortunately, you're right. the PSeye wasn't very popular, but then again Sony wasn't advertising it as the 2nd coming of the PS3 (that's the Slim). M$, however, put tons more emphasis on Kinect than they did with 360S. M$ knows how to use their money to get their products known, but what they SHOULD be doing is using that money to make more quality products and invest in better business tactics.
(I've been saying this over and over) If Kinect is successful, hardcore gaming on the 360 will be secondary, if that. Look at the Wii.
Yeah I'm not liking the direction Microsoft is heading. And it worries me even more that they didn't even show any new xbox exclusive core games...Well at least they've still got Halo, Gears, Fable and the multiplats.
Microsoft seems to be having an identity crisis.
Xbox360 used to be synonymous with hardcore online gaming. It seems that MS wants to shed that perception, and this has been going on quite some time with the addition of non gaming apps, avatars, etc. The previous mantra 'It's all about the games' seems to have been silenced.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm all about increased functionality and completely understand a company wanting to increase its marketshare and demographic, but MS at times seems to be a ship without a rudder. Perhaps we are seeing but a few pieces of the puzzle, only glimpses of a greater vision, and as more pieces are put in place it will all come together and make gaming sense.
I just hope that as they move along their journey, they don't forget or neglect their core audience, the gamers that have made the 360 and XBL the success they are today.
I think that is Microsoft's main problem. While the Move is trying to target all types of gamers, Microsoft is following Nintendo almost exactly. The way they are marketing it, the kind of games, even the motions are the same. Everyone keeps calling the Move a Wii-mote clone but guess what? The Kinect is the real clone. Microsoft is still playing it safe.
Yeah even a lot of playstation owners are not aware of playstation eye. Microsoft is pushing this technology like its new but real gamers know that Kinect is just a Webcam on Crack.....I mean Steriods.
Sooooo basically Softkinetic is trying to do everything Microsoft is planning to do with Natal? I mean I don't know who was first but clearly someone is copying someone. IF I had to guess it'd be Microsoft doing the copying....
@ ExgamerLegends2:
it depends on the field of view of the camera. They can adjust it so that it sees all of you even up close for a PC version.
GL trying to get MS to share their software for Natal since that is the power behind Natal. MS been working on this a few years now so they may want to get busy if they want to catch up. As for the tech by all means copy it and make good programs for the PC.
Natal was said to be compatible with Windows at E3. You probably want to stick with the company that owns the hardware and happens to be a software company too.
#1.6 is right, the full function of a Natal-like camera would be retarded on PC unless we're strictly talking about gesture control. Just sounds like fans of the other camp starting to admit how powerful Natal will be and this is the only way to deal with it, taking the edge off. Also look who posted this news and the source of the news.
Third party motion peripherals don't do well. There's already clones of the wii mote for the 360 and ps3, and none have garnered as much attention as either the move or natal.