Sony's PS3 Update Could Affect Supercomputer Users

"If you're one of the many scientists and researchers using a PlayStation 3 as a cheap alternative to a supercomputer, you'll want to steer clear of Sony's latest firmware update.

The PlayStation 3 has emerged as a favorite among researchers looking to create homebrew supercomputers on the cheap. When clustered, the PS3's Cell processor - developed by Sony, IBM and Toshiba - can rival the power of a supercomputer, say some researchers."

-Wired

[unrealgamer58]

I believe sony has a custom fw update for this

[Bereaver]

Or, it could still be an april fools joke.

[koehler83]

They've given cluster users heads up not to update. They'll retain the current firmware and all it's features.

People are treating this like a breach of contract or something. Sony has already cut off the feature to new users by removing the feature from Slims back in August. Anyone who has been using a PS3 for computational purposes prior to that can continue to do so as long as they like. They will just lose the ability to play games they likely weren't playing anyway.

And for the record, Sony has never advertised that feature.

[Shadow Flare]

All they have to do is not update their ps3's. It's not like they're using them to play mag. That geohotz guy is such a twat. Who knows what sony might remove next thanks to that fool

[vhero]

people who use PS3 as a super computer would never need to update there ps3 as they never play games on it.

[Godmars290]

Which was more the shame.

Imagine if they had run a septate ad campaign from the game console touting it as an e-machine while at the same time creating a specific version of Linux to run on it. Offering models with it already installed that also came with a keyboard.

One MS critic was right when he said that Sony includes tons of aps in their product, then fail to develop of even support them.

[sikbeta]

This Update could affect Supercomputer Users, but IT'LL NOT AFFECT THEM because they simply will not Update, IF they use the PS3-Clusters For [Research] they don't use the Consoles For Gaming, PSN, On-Line, Blu-Ray and Such, so they DON'T need to Update, they probably never update cuz they don't use the Console for Gaming and Multimedia stuff...

[Christopher]

This article is completely wrong.

People using them as a cluster farm for supercomputing never run the PS3 OS and only Linux. You can update those OS and any programs on them without ever having to update the PS3 firmware. It's the firmware that needs to be updated to account for the LinuxOS option each time, not the other way around.

So, people who are into supercomputing are not at all affected by this at all.

[Darrius Cole]

Or, it could still be an April fool's joke.

[Milky Joe]

Yeah, some how I dount the people using them like this will be too upset about not being able to play online xD

[Eamon]

Shadow Flare, your reaction is similar to how a kid in school would react when one person causes the teacher to keep the whole class behind.

It's not that one person's fault the whole class was kept behind. It was the teacher's decision.

This analogy works here too. Sony is scared the exploit could lead to piracy and do not want to take a risk so they cut off the feature.

It's like when the US army airstrikes a spot in Afghanistan to eliminate Taliban insurgents but then civilians get caught in the crossfire. Putting the blame on the insurgents even though they weren't responsible for the air strike.

[randomwiz]

people using ps3 for supercomputers probably still have not updated above fw 1.0

@above
but that one kid in the class has a knife that threatens the teachers life. Did the teacher make the right decision holding up the class, or should he have not done anything and let the student with the knife roam freely.

@below
like i said before, if people had not used linux to modify files in the ps3 os partition, Sony probably wouldn't have removed this.

[working4games]

Sony's firmware updates for the PS3 have always gone up by .01 every update. Why would they up the number by .05 all of a sudden just to rid us older PS3 owners of a feature? My theory is that they upped the number by .05 since 5 days from the announcement being released the update is on April Fool's Day and that they will just add features instead of removing them. I just wonder if there will be a media firestorm if this is revealed.

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

BUT these so called supercomputers don't have to update to the newest firmware. For all we know they are probably still running the initial firmware that was installed from factory. I don't think the military or anybody that uses it for scientific research watches bluray or plays games like MAG on PSN.

LOL. Just the thought of them actually doing that is hilarious.

- "Private, disconnect one of those PS3's off the cluster and hook it up that TV, it's time for some MAG action!"

- "Sir yes sir!"

[Syronicus]

Yeah, because we all know that those who use their PS3's for super computing also use them to play games on the side...

Stop the FUD about this update already.

[Mr Logic]

Whatever happened to those pictures that showed FW 3.20 supporting 3D?

[Ju]

Who ever uses a PS3 as a Supercomputer got one already - long ago. New ones don't have the custom OS since they were released last September. No PS3slim has the custom OS feature. So, why would anybody bother NOW ?

BTW: A friend of mine uses the Folding@Home project to run whatever code he wants on the SPUs. That's a back door to harness SPU power through a PS3 cluster - without running linux.

[Eamon]

@randomwiz

I asssume when you said "the kid has a knife and is threatening the teacher's life" you mean to say that Geohot's exploit could end the Playstation 3?

Unfortunately that is not so. There is quite a high rate of piracy for the PSP and DS and they have still survived. Also, the Xbox 360 has piracy (although minimal compared to handhelds) and it remains to have high sales both hardware and software.

It's called a business move. Sony would rather remove a feature given to the customers than risk losing a small percentage of sales. This is normal for any capitalist business.

[Voozi]

This update is also affecting people who do cell based developing/coding on their PS3's via Linux AND also play games, buy stuff off psn store, etc. Especially if you're doing an independent study for college which is kind of a big deal...

Thanks Sony now I can't go online anymore, play any new games that will require new firmware, etc.

Next time don't brag about these features or advertise them

"One of the most powerful things about the PS3 is the "Install Other OS" option. It won't be Vista. It'll be Linux." ~ Phil Harrison
http://kotaku.com/235049/20...

"There is more to the PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3™) computer entertainment system than you may have assumed. In addition to playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and viewing photos, you can use the PS3™ system to run the Linux operating system.

By installing the Linux operating system, you can use the PS3™ system not only as an entry-level personal computer with hundreds of familiar applications for home and office use, but also as a complete development environment for the Cell Broadband Engine™ (Cell/B.E.)."

http://www.playstation.com/...

Take note of the last line; "a complete development environment for the Cell Broadband Engine™" which is what I can't do on my PC ;)

So anyone want to send me another PS3? Since I now need two of them, one for gaming and one for cell developing.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

I have a great idea, I won't even charge Sony for it.

Don't remove a feature until it ACTUALLY IS a security problem? I mean you can always close it later in a firmware update and since new games will require the update.

[XxZxX]

IdleLeeSiuLung,

Don't take out the cancer cell if it's not spreading.
or Don't lock the door if you don't see any thief.

Make much sense?

[Neo604]

nice.

you can still doing folding@home to cure cancer, I did.

[ThanatosDMC]

Idiotic article because those people dont use it for games.

[DaTruth]

A tiny bit of research and even less common sense could have avoided this article based entirely on a mistake!

Nobody is updating the firmware on their supercomputers!

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

"Don't take out the cancer cell if it's not spreading.
or Don't lock the door if you don't see any thief. "

Your analogy isn't very good. Cancer has no recourse once it spreads while being deadly and locking your door has no ill effect.

Removing a feature that is in use just in case somebody MIGHT (read extremely low probability) hack your console is ridiculous considering the backlash you are getting from your current consumers. It's not like Sony has no recourse even if somebody do hack it!

This is similar to DRM, let's add the most obnoxious kind to upset your current customer in case those thief phony up the $$$ to buy the game.

Basically what I see is Sony will risk lawsuit and upsetting their user base for something that MIGHT happen with very low probability that they do have an easy fix after the fact!

[Marty8370]

scientists and researchers would use ther own networks not PSN. So they would chose not to upgrade.

[Kamikaze135]

I guess who ever posted this needs to look into things a bit further before posting news.

[ElementX]

Says Geoff Levand in an email to Haxnetwork.net:

Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue the support for previously sold models that have the "Install Other OS" feature and that this feature will not be disabled in future firmware releases.

http://www.haxnetwork.net/2...

[LordMarius]

mhmm what to believe...

[Arksine]

The email in your link was sent in February. I'm going to guess that the folks involved did not have the right information. Either that, or they flat out lied.

This isn't an April Fools joke. Any company worth their salt isn't going to joke about something that could potentially piss customers off. Sony sent out the notice early so people with PS3 clusters for HPC use do not upgrade the firmware.

That said, hopefully Sony will add a nice feature in 3.21 to ease the pain for their gaming customers that are angry to see Other OS removed. Maybe one of the two biggies: Software emulation or X-Game chat.

[randomwiz]

that was before people touched the ps3 os partition and changed that rco file to display text.
http://geohotps3.blogspot.c...

They patched the hypervisor to access the ps3 partition. If they didn't do that, i'm sure we would have still had OtherOS.

[Lumbo]

LOL, people act as if this message ewas from February THIS year, when it clearly was from BEFORE the Other-OS hack:

"> On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 09:58 -0700, geoffrey.levand at am.sony.com wrote:"

August 21th 2009! That was at the Slim release, not "a few days ago"

[ElementX]

Yes but they're going back on their word. So it was from last year, big deal. If you tell somebody something, you should stick to it. It's called honesty. So what if the game changed? These days you can't believe anything anyone says, ever.

Just look at Bioshock on PS3, they said it wouldn't happen but sure enough, it did. This industry is full of corrupt liars who change their words.

Next thing you know Sony will charge for online, even though they said they wouldn't. Anything is possible, it's all big corporations.

I don't care, because I don't use Linux, but it's the corporate morality that's at issue here. They're always saying one thing but doing another.

You buy hardware, you should be able to hack it for custom firmware or whatever. I don't do these things, but a lot of people like running custom stuff. You physically own the hardware and then they take something away from you when you bought it with the understanding that it will support another OS.

Same thing with ISPs. You buy their service, but a few years down the road they limit your bandwidth (Comcast). I don't pirate, some people do. They try to stop those people, however sometimes innocent people get screwed in the process.

[nevimkdojsem2]

"Geoff Levand, PS3-Linux maintainer" is not Sony employee, so Sony didn't lie. AFAIK Sony has nothing to do with the Linux distros you can install on fat PS3s, those are just regular Linux distros compiled for the Power PC CPUs; it really is "other OS" - it could be Free BSD or your own OS if you managed to compile it for the Power PC architecture.

[raztad]

Pretty sure if you have a cluster of PS3s running it's not exactly gaming but doing HPC. You never mess with a cluster. Once the thing is set, forget about updates unless strictly necessary, PS3 firmware updates are absolutely not required so never installed. Dont worry about scientists.

[sikbeta]

Exactly, IF people that have PS3-Clusters don't use it For Gaming, there is no need for Them to Update

[Vip3r]

Don't update them then? How many of those used to form a "super computer" need access to PSN?

They should be fine if you think about it.

[mushroomwig]

What kind of scientists use their supercomputers to play online games or voice chat with their PSN buddies? -_-

Needless article, obviously they don't care for such things if they're using the systems for scientific use.

[Gun_Senshi]

Alot of companies use PS3 Clusters as server.

This is nothing but an April's Fool's Joke

[Lumbo]

They are NOT affected, there is no need to update the Firmware as they don't use the Game-OS to begin with. PS3 as servers start in Other-OS all the time, and did not need ANY of the updates so far. They most likely still use the same FW as at the time of purchase.

[SuperStrokey1123]

Not a joke and they wouldnt update then, both of your points are non points

[MGOelite]

exactly ^ its not like the update is mandantory...

[RuPaul]

another silly article.

[madmonkey0]

i think the people who use the ps in that way are probably running their own software on it, i dont think the normal ps3 firmware is relevant to them.

[Enjoi915111]

its only does everything and then takes it away.....so far BC.....and OS's on ps3 is gone......bye bye super computers......

i hope this doesn't happen though......so much money was put into this by universities and many companies.....sony better not screw them over

now they will have to have a supercomputer rigged with 360.....and that would just end in...OOOOO sh!T....BANG....building on fire....massive rrodbomb

sony should leave the feature and stop pissing off its customers

[mushroomwig]

You shouldn't even be blaming Sony for this, blame the hacker who managed to exploit the system.

Sony are only trying to stop piracy.

[Silly gameAr]

Wow. Who cares. If you play games on your PS3, update. If not, don't update. I notice that most people that make comments like yours really have no interest in the PS3 anyway.

This is just something else to use against Sony and the PS3.

[Enjoi915111]

i actually have a ps3 and i actually like linux on my ps3. i guess you cant blame sony but they really should just ignore the guy.....hacking ps3 took him what 3 years.....like anyone else would be able to do it also it would take years for more than probably 200 people to get their ps3 hacked.....

i look at it like this

10000 hackers / to 14 million gamers/not hackers.....

they need to look at the ratio comparison....sony is screwing us for a measly % of hackers.....

but hey psn is free guess i cant complain to much.

back to killing raven.....

psnid -enjoi187 SVER FTW

[wicko]

Blame the hacker? What is with this hypocritical opinion I've been seeing spreading around N4G?

How many people were pissed off at Ubisoft for their sh1tty DRM? Anger was targeted against Ubisoft for their action. Nobody came out and blamed the pirates that download games. Nor did anyone blame those responsible for the cracks. There have been countless articles about sh1tty DRM and the majority of the comments blame the publisher/developer. How is this business with Sony and Geohot not EXACTLY the same thing? Just like Ubisoft, Sony is protecting their property from hackers at the expense of legitimate consumers.

If anything, we should be blaming *both* parties. In fact, its not just those parties at fault, its also those who are the target "market" for hackers. And the people who leak games early, and those who develop security software for their products. I'm sure we could go on.

[jack_burt0n]

This has nothing to do with "hackers" its one idiot, the hacking community had nothing to do with it and anyone with half a brain would never have touched it.

Sony launched the platform with other os support, generic 2.5" hdd, massive usb/ bluetooth freedom etc. Its all geotwats fault.

[wicko]

You really think he's the only one trying to crack the PS3? That's a pretty naive thought. People can disagree with me all they like, but its hypocritical.

I think he's an idiot, making so much noise and drawing attention to himself. But I'm not so blind that I'll only blame him.

[THC CELL]

thats like saying the warhawk servers will close down cause they use ps3 for servers http://thegamergene.com/wp-...

[Abriael]

If you're using your PS3 as a supercomputer for research, chances are that you didn't update your firmware even once since when you got it.

[JoelR]

actually not true... I can think of three labs that have updated. of course it's more because you can still use it as a game console and researchers are not immune to having a good time.

(check the cluster in Rome NY and at the LLNL)

[alphakennybody]

as long as its a ps3 doom it passes, even though its pretty obvious those who use the ps3 as supercomputer don't play games on it and use they're own servers like some of the above wrote.

[ActionBastard]

If you're using a cluster of PS3s, you're not gaming on it. Period. FUD for the sake of FUD.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

I was going to miss this feature but now that my PS3 has officially died all the way from YLOD and the cost to fix it isn't far from a new Slim I am SOL on the Other OS feature. Unless I fork out the $$$ to have it fixed.

/whine

[Sunny_D]

Whining from you??? OF COURSE NOT! We love hearing your anti PS3 comments!

rolls eyes*

[5tgyw3ty34]

With all this pink glasses pro sony propaganda on this site its really refreshing to see some people speak the truth for a change.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

sunndy: After this POS of a console died on me. You ain't seen nothing yet! And I'm sure you will be right there waving your Sony flag being the shill you always are.

[Bordel_1900]

People who are running PS3s as supercomputers NEVER need to boot them from the PS3 OS. It'll never know there's an update.

[cubehouse]

No no no no no no no no no.
If you're using a bunch of PS3s for Linux to make a super-cluster.
You will have absolutely NO desire to have updated the firmware in the last 3 years.

Besides, the fact that there are NO new PS3s available on the market with otherOS support is a far far far bigger problem for researchers than this.

[knightoftears]

Most features added by the firmware updates aren't needed by these scientists anyway. If there is a problem I know Sony has a modified firmware for their exclusive use, but I don't see any problems. I bet GeoNOT would love to get his hands on that FW...lmao.

[ManiacMansion]

Nothing new.. a PS3 updated always crashed something else since the release of the PS3 :)

[cyborg6971]

You make it sound as if that was as common as the rrod which it is not. You should have a long talk with your girlfriend....... Oh wait hands can't talk so scratch that. You should go upstairs talk with your mommy about upping your allowance so you can buy a ps3, just so you can witness the shear awsomeness that is anything Sony. Now stfu you cawck lover.

[Lehman Brothers]

Sony and their patches/ updates, lol-

[ApocalypseShadow]

but it's funny that there are people outraged on something that has nothing to do with the main features of the console.

linux doesn't improve your games like uncharted 2.linux does nothing for bluray movies.linux does nothing for playing games online.

it was a cool idea.but i never used it on my ps3 60gig(500gig).people need to understand nowadays that companies give you a license to use their product.and now that it is linked to the internet,the company can do whatever they want with their console.it's disappointing,but it's sony's right.

you can say,"well,it's my console."but sony can still ban you from playing online.it's their right again.you are only privileged to play on ps3.

you want to talk about outrage,where is the outrage on RROD?paying to play online while everyone else plays for free?microsoft's monopoly on accessories?what happened to those third party memory cards?can't use them huh?where's the outrage on microsoft selling an HD-DVD but never supporting it?claiming digital downloads were the future?if so,why did they sell the HD-DVD?

outrage?where is the outrage of having a dvd based nintendo wii that doesn't play dvd movies?how about not having a HDD to save more of those virtual console games?how about the outrage of a poor online structure?how about the outrage of the amount of shovelware on the system?and while nintendo is making all that money,they are not making a lot of games with that money.

there's a lot to be outraged on.but getting upset about something that had no real use for gamers is a little "outrageous."

[LexHazard79]

I'm afraid every time Sony puts out an update..just never know if that one update is gonna brick my PS3..I would be so mad, cause i just got a replacement for my YLOD PS3. I bought another fattie(160gb model w/UC1) things runs so quite and smooth..update better not f*ck up my PS3!!!

[Ju]

Living proof, that FUD works. When did any firmware update break PS3s in the past ?

[mp1289]

its not like sony isn't loosing money for every console sold

[SoonThai]

if you have ever used the otheros you would know you have very limited access to the cell. its not even a super computer in the hands of a regular joe. theres a limit to access memory and spu and the gpu. stating your losing a supercompter is blown way out of portion. does it have the capablitiy yes (folding at home)do we have access to it? NO. It normal for a person to want to try to maximize the resources of a product. somebody went all out. Sony got alerted, check for a security threat, decided yes and dealt with it. it was a a good run till today. Even in the terms of condition on psn. it states it can change what ever features if you agree and update and use psn. yes we lose features but we also gained tons of features from launch so im not complaining. my 2 cents

[Ju]

You have full access to the SPUs (6 of them) under linux, as well as the full bank of XDR. The only limitation is the GPU, which you have no access to. No research project runs on the (PS3) GPU anyway. Why they use it is solely because of the fast vector processors.

[jjesso1993]

dont make sence if companys where usuing the ps3 as supercomuter they would have dev kit or custom firmware made by sony as the ps3 hardly supercomputer when run linux is it ?

[AliTheBrit19]

Sony is retarded

Seriously think about it, they are REMOVING stuff rather than including new stuff, its the complete opposite of what a firmware update should do.

Sure, there probably isn't many people who will miss this, but there WILL be people who miss this.

And why are they removing it? because its a security risk to the PS3? sorry, last time I checked that was Sony's problem and only affected them not us PS3 owners.

[SuperStrokey1123]

I dont know how many times this needs to be said but one more time, they are well within their rights to do this. You dont like it, dont update. This will also combat piracy so thats a good thing as well. The small small fraction of people that will be get pissed over this is much smaller than the amount of people that might have engage in piracy or things similar to Jtag on the 360.

This is a good thing for the health of the industry and for gamers in the long run.

[AliTheBrit19]

Then they should have had enough foresight to never include it in the first place, why DID they include it in the first place?

to try and seem to offer more than the competition?

general arrogance that the PS3 couldn't be hacked? (seems that day will soon be here)

[Ju]

It was maybe a bit of arrogance ("can't be cracked"), a bit of confidence that the hypervisor would be secure enough and a portion of trust in the community. The later was obviously taken for granted...

[nevimkdojsem2]

"Then they should have had enough foresight to never include it in the first place, why DID they include it in the first place? "

Wow, what a genius... Why have Microsoft programmers left myriads of bugs and security holes in all Windows versions, Internet Explorer, ActiveX, MS SQL Server, MIIS? Why did MS support HD-DVD, COM, DCOM, Visual Basic, ActiveX, .NET and all the now dead technologies? They should have had foresight!!!

Stop pretend caring about things you don't have (PS3) or don't use (Linux). The article is BS anyway - you can use Linux on PS3 as long as you want if you don't update the GameOS and people who use PS3 as a supercomputer have never had any reason to update the FW.

[venum]

I though scientists and researchers were using only linux and were running their software.
I though they didn't care the xmb and They didn't use the PS3 to play games. I can imagine them spending time in nodal room to play GOW III.

Seriously, When scientists and researchers are using powerful PC or supercomputers for their research, they are not using them to game. They need a optimized system to run their software.

This article is lame. They should have asked Professor Gaurav Khanna or Stanford University what are the consequences of this firmware instead making lame speculation.

[crazyclown]

consumer vs researcher is totally different and would require different updates. In addition, april fools joke

[dkgshiz]

This update is being released on April fools you know.... Its pretty hard to take this update seriously.

[SuperStrokey1123]

This is just a load of bunk claims, i highly doubt any of teh PS3 clusters have ever been updated AT ALL. The likely run their own custom linux os and dont even need the ps3 one.

[ack591]

I am not so pleased when I heard this upcoming update.

But the cell cpu is created through the cooperation of Sony,Toshiba, and IBM. IBM wouldn't be so happy if PS3 units are taking away their supercomputer market share. They both probably made some consensus that other-os feature would be removed sometimes down the road.

And the recently hacking activities give Sony a very good excuse.

[Llama]

Well some people use their ps3s for rendering. I know the ps3 is alot faster at rendering than my pc. This is very inconvenient.

[Shendow]

If are Army is only using it for a Supercomputer, then they have no real reason to worry about it, now if people outside of that are. Well I guess they have to kind of worry.

Don't care, I got a computer and I won't miss OS on my PS3.

[sashimi]

What kind of retards wrote this...Also why would those using the Ps3 as a supercomputer update the ps3 firmware in the first place since its not like they play games on it.

[JoelR]

.

[Colonel-Killzone]

Blame that idiot hacker

[SKUD]

Doubt it.

[JohnnyHalo]

Even lose features.