Rage Will Look Worse on 360 Due to Compression; Doom 4 and Rage Not Likely for Digital Distribution

id's post-apocalyptic open-world shooter Rage (PC, PS3, 360, Mac) will look worse on Xbox 360 due to the compression needed to fit the game's assets on two DVDs, programmer John Carmack revealed at tonight's QuakeCon keynote.

According to Carmack, the royalty fees to include a third disc in the Xbox 360 version would be so high that it simply isn't a feasible solution, with the programmer hoping for Microsoft to make a concession. He stressed that the issue has nothing to do with the Xbox 360 hardware itself, and is merely a storage problem.

[Ogrekiller]

Here's to MS ponying up for that 3rd disc.
I predict a field day for the Sony fanboys this time.
Edit: Never said that.
Edit 2: @ mushroom avatar guy: No, I didn't admittedly.

[sushipoop]

But I thought Blu-ray wasn't needed? LMAO I know you're crying on the inside, Ogre. Everyone be sure to spread the news! This is all the proof we needed. =)

[donator]

This is the perfect time for PS3 fan boys to take the high road. You've been arguing about how DVDs will become a problem for the 360 due to its storage limitations and now you have more concrete evidence that what you've been saying all along is true.

So this is a plea to fellow PS3 owners. Take the high road. Don't rub it in. Don't stoop to their level.

[rucky]

C'mon like you didn't see this coming.

[sonarus]

I wouldn't speak too soon. Wait till we actually see it running on both consoles

[beavis4play]

lets see....who should i listen to?......john carmack or sonarus? i should probably listen to sonarus cause what would carmack know about this game? end sarcasm.

[Bnet343]

I am not interested in this game at all. Actually what is this game suppose to be?

[sonarus]

Lol @beavis4play glad you take my opinion seriously ;)

But carmack is trying to promote a game here. Saying one version will look worse is kind of a dumb business practice. They may simply be putting pressure on Microsoft to ease up on the royalty fees. Sort of how Streed fighter turbo HD got delayed to infinity thanks to Msoft low size limit for arcade type games.

These people can sometimes misquote an individual just like how mass effect president apparently said no mass effect for ps3 until trilogy and that was proven fake. No compression definitely improves graphics but we don't even know how well the engine runs on the ps3 yet. I just say lets wait and see

[solidt12]

360 better get a Blu-Ray player or become the Dreamcast. Seriously it could happen.. No one saw it coming back when it happened to the Dreamcast. The Dreamcast had great games when it happened also.

[beavis4play]

no hard feelings i hope. feel free to poke fun at me any time.

[kopicha]

sigh... what a typical fanboy comment. when a game report to be not great on your system you simply try to hide it to the world by saying thank god i aint interested. so when something shows that ps3 is worst than its counterpart. even if you aint interested you would bash ps3 like hell. sad but true.... doesnt apply to me thou. i have both.

[TOSgamer]

How ghetto is that? No wonder the only multi discs games to come out for the 360 were published by MS.

[solidt12]

Knowing Microsoft there solution might be to slap three DVD players in the next Xbox to protest Blu-Ray. Idiots.

[sushipoop]

We're not asking you if you're interested. It's about the point of this article. The principle. The 360 version will look worse because they'll need to compress it beyond belief. PS3 has Blu-ray.

Sony FTW!

[marinelife9]

I honestly never even heard of this game. Is it even any good. There used to be a day if a game was made by Carmack you didn't even have to ask.

Will Doom 4 need three discs as well?

[kai_h]

Giving the 360 a Blu-ray player wouldn't do anything except enable the playback of Blu-ray movies. In order to produce games on Blu-ray for 360 would be if either: Microsoft gave every 360 a Blu-ray player, release games on both DVD and Blu-ray, or alienate the 360s with DVD players.

So if you want to say that the 360 should get a Blu-ray player, then the way to say it is not that Microsoft should make a 360 with Blu-ray, but instead, that Microsoft should've made a 360 with Blu-ray.

[sonarus]

lol hard feelings?...me...never :)

[decapitator]

Blu-ray is not needed for gaming amrite ?

Seriousl though, Am sure Carmack knows what he is talking about after all.

THE MAN IS BEEN TO SPACE. SPACE Motherfackers.

[Megatron08]

If multi disc are so bad it mean that the ps1 was the worse system ever invented. God what a piece a crap that was you know how many games on that system used multi dics. Sony should of never made a ps2 or a ps3 after that. All thoe multi disc games just proved that sony had no idea how to make a game system.

@decapitator they put monkeys in space to so whats your point ?

[Bangladesh]

MS had better be ponying up for that 3rd disc. I'm a fan of the 360, but if it hurts the game not having enough space. Then I'll add Rage to my small library of ps3 games.

[Playstation Man]

Back then the technology wasn't available to do it all in one disc. Instead, devs either were stuck with less capable carts or discs of only 800mb. Even back then games were like 1000-2500 mbs like MGS or FFs. Quite frankly, they had no choice BUT to do it.

Here, Blu-Ray offers an alternative. DVD9 does not. XBOX screwed up and fixed costs of production are down by not having to pay royalties for multi-dics on PS3. They don't have to compress for Blu-Ray. XBOX fails hard here.

[CrazzyMan]

and ps3 only 1,5 year on the market.)
PS3 is FUTUREPROOF.

Soon or later This would happen..)

p.s. @Kigmal http://www.gametrailers.com... =)

[jwatt]

youtube quality sucks but the game has lost and lots of textures in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Martini]

From quake con - Shane: "He says that from id's point of view, 360's hardware is superior to PS3's but that BluRay's capacity gives Sony's system an important edge, especially for large game worlds like Rage's."

Let's not forget that this fall 360 will be able to install the games onto the HDD so if MS loosens up the royalty per disc BS we might just get RAGE on 3-4 dvd's with the best console game performance on the superior hardware (360) - see quote.

All that MS needs to do is allow developers to use the HDD and as everyone knows this is coming in the fall update.

[CaptainHowdy]

Fascinating....xbox720, 2009

[Kaneda]

Yup! 720.. xbox owners will paying twice as much money for next gen console. :) IF they decide to buy 720.. :)

[Expy]

When Carmack says that it'll look worse if they have to compress it to 2 (TWO) DVDs -minimum- it will. He's a well enough respected developer and technology enthusiast that everyone who knows him wouldn't dare question his findings.

He admitted that at id software they prefer the 360 hardware because they find it more powerful, but he also admits that Blu-Ray is a big edge to the Playstation 3 platform for its obviously massive storage capacity.

He's saying it will look worse, it will, unless Microsoft does something about their storage issues... and their Core/Arcade bundles.

[thePatriot]

is a hardware problem, whats he talking about?
dvd is a problem
off to play eden

[Winter47th]

Looks like they weren't pissing around when they said the PS3 was future proof.

Now all the jokes about TeE CELL iz R POAHFULL r lolz blooray BS aTtACK iz WEEk POinT foR iz MassIVe DaMAGe are coming around to bite ya'll in the ass lol

And what digital distribution? if the DVDs can't handle the game, don't expect everyone with an Xbox360 to have a blazing fast internet connection to download an +8.5GB game, DT won't cut it and it's not the answer for embracing a last-gen format.

Stop kidding your self, jump Blu already.

[cahill]

a game on 3 DVD

Oh wait no i will have the ps3 version thanks

[morganfell]

@kigmal...pathetic. You were interested enough to post a reply.

http://battellemedia.com/im...

[AceLuby]

Dude, do you realize how much space a SINGLE DVD9 would take up, not to mention 3 or 4. 30GB for a single game is over 1/4 of the usable space of a 120GB drive going for, what $180?

[cmrbe]

I find it interesting that you forgot that millions of x360 don't have HD. Spin whatever way you want mate to make yourself feel better.

[The Lazy One]

THAT DUMB!

They'll probably end up paying id to put it on 3, because id has been an enormous supporter of the 360 over the PS3 in usability, and Rage is an amazingly beautiful and detailed game. I can't see M$ letting that go for the extra $1 max it would cost for an extra DVD.

[Pika-pie]

PS3 version it is then =0)

[xhi4]

the great news of a good investment never ceases to satisfy me.

anyone want to buy my 360?

[beoulve]

Martini, Let's not forget about those with Hard disk but let's just totally forget about those without hard disk.

[godofthunder10]

i love the picture of br but i will never buy a player untill it's the main movie formate because i hate to buy anything that's made in Japan if i can,i try and buy American when i can.They were already polled and they claimed that they hate to buy any forign products because they like to support their own country and economy and they especialy hate to buy from the U.S.

I have respect for them because i understand their point.Japan wouldn't be the richest country in the world and have the strongest economy in the world if they bought products from other countries instead of their own.The U.S was the richest country at one time and had a strong economy untill people started buying Japans product.

The most disgusting thing that i've ever read on these sites are so called Americans wishing that a company from Japan beats one from the U.S and cause it to close down.These so called Americans are wishing that million of Americans lose their jobs and every thing that they own and hurt the American economy because they want Japan to beat us,all i could say is that if they claim that they are proud of and love the U.S,i hate to see if they don't.Their isn't one Japanese person that will wish that an American company beat any company in Japan because they have pride and respect for their country unlike some Americans.

I read how some Americans claim that they Japan buy American products.They claim that they buy American products like coke,burger king,and macdonalds.They are right but they have to buy from them.Japan don't have a different coke,macdonald,and burger king company that was started in Japan so they have know choice but to buy them if they like these products but if they did they wouldn't sell worth a sh*t.

Japan allows about 33% or more imports from the U.S then they export to it and that's a fact.The U.S been talking to them about it and said that it needs to be more even.

I'm proud of my country just like the Japanese are and like them i want pull against my country to lose to another country at anything.i will also buy as much products as i can from my country to help my country economy out just like they do.If people don't belive that when they buy forign products from other countries they are helping that country get richer and help their economy out and hurts the U.S economy out more then it help them then they need to read up on it.

When people buy products from a forign company instead of the U.S all it does is make the forign country stronger and america weaker and lose all kind of jobs for American workers.Before the U.S started letting Japan sell all their products over here it was the richest country in the world.Because the U.S let them sell their products here it isn't the richest country in the world,as a matter of fact it's #3 behind Japan and China.The U.S also had a strong economy,every one had a job and they had American companies opened up all over the world.When people stsrted buying products from Japan instead of the U.S it caused most of the companies to close down and millions of people lose their job and that's a fact.

They have other U.S companies in trouble now.They have chevrolet and ford that in troble now,as a matter of fact chevrolet was talking about going bankrupt because of slow sales.if this happens then The only choice we will have is to buy a forign car and on top of that they will have millions of more people lose their jobs because Americans refuse to buy American products to help they U.S out and that's a shame.Japan buy products from Japan because they understand what will happen if they don't and i respect them for that.

[spandexxking]

i think i just dropped a few IQ reading godofthunder's wall of text.

[Idonthatejustcreate]

HOW THE HELL are they gonna fit FFXIII on 2 discs on the xbox360???? It will more likely take around 4 discs for it plus compression to the fullest if not more.

Something is not right with FFXIII coming to the 360...

[SL1M DADDY]

2 discs? FFXIII? Even Lost Odyssey had 4 discs and that was with the UE3 engine powering the game. Yeah it looked nice but it was not what I have seen in the FFXIII trailers. My guess is that they are going to dumb down the game to fit on 4 discs or they are going to ship with a minimum of 6 discs. The DVD format is starting to become a dillema and we're only three years into the 360's life cycle.

[supahbad]

hahahahaha, it's guys like you the reason Al quaeda hates us, man i skimmed through that wall, and it had nothing to do with anything.

hey i was just wondering if you are a card carrying member of the border patrol. hahaha

[JsonHenry]

Well, I for one am thankful MS did not put HD-DVD in their 360 and make me pay an extra $100-150 at launch since it is a dead format. If it looks a little better on the PS3 then yay! for me. I own a PS3!

[jlemdon]

well they now have the option to install and it's still a problem?

c'mon Carmack you really want that 3rd disc, I guess the game is too big.

[Shroomy]

That sucks!

Oh well, I bought a new laptop for gaming at just the right time! :D

[Armyless]

You're going to install 18+GB of game data to a Hard Drive and you think you've solved the problem?

[Real Gambler]

It's been said already!

Yes they can install now (they had no choice to announce it at E3, otherwise they would not have got FF)

But please, explain how they will install 3 9gig dvds on an Arcade xbox (NO DRIVE). Even your Core 20 gig harddrive will become pretty thight soon no?. And for now the only choice is paying $200 for a bigger harddrive that should cost $60. (For $200 it should be 500gig minimum)

[thebudgetgamer]

we been on the short end of the stick in most cases now that the shoe is on the other foot you xbox owners know what weve been dealing with but stuff like this happens and to say it will not look as good doesnt mean it will be trash its not valve your dealing with

[shelbygt33]

Do you all feel validated? Your e-pride go up a notch? Yes? good, now go back to playing games.

[rroded]

This wouldnt b such an issue as a matter of fact if they had won the format war Sony would b the one hurting now...
Gotta admire Sony for the b/r win and a standard hd in every box.
Still cant understand what ms was thinking with a overpriced hddvd add on and no hd standard.

[Marojado]

PS3 owner, fan of overall gaming and all consoles. And to be honest i reckon the differences will be minute. Just like every other multi platform game that fanboys like to dissect. It works both ways, but at the end of the day, the graphics engine looks pretty sweet so i dont think anyone needs to worry.

[et617]

Your a fanboy if you say your not interested in Rage at all, it's beginning to gain hype and it does look awesome. Your pathetic in total if you never heard of id Software, especially if your a hardcore FPS gamer. Doom created a lot of trends for the FPS genre...

[mfwahwah]

"While allowing the game to be installed on the Xbox 360's harddrive may help, it actually wouldn't solve that problem, Hollenshead added."

Too bad installs won't help y'all out here.

[Ateanboy]

LOL! LOL!

DVD9 FOR THE WIN!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

But-- Huh-- Wha??? How is this possible? I thought "DVD9" was enough.

What a bunch of douche bags.

Sony Field Day FTW!!!!!!! Whoot!

There's nothing better than living long enough to see a company like Microsoft having to eat their own words....
And also the thousands of 360 fanboys that actually BELIEVE and DEFEND their every word...

Now what?

DVD9 enough? WRONG! Now pay for their damn 3rd disc!

I have limited computer hardware education, and even IIIIIIIII knew that Blu-Ray was the way to go and that Sony made the right investment.

And these GENIUSES at Microsoft Corporate managed to come upon the conclusion that DVD9 was more efficient than Blu-Ray!?!?!?!?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Sony Field Day FTW!!!!

Yeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

I sh*t- on u.

We sh*t- on u.

Sony sh*ts- on u.

Microsoft sh*ts- on u.

Ur being sh*ted on from all directions. Nowhere to hide. Nowhere to take cover. Just let it rain. Let the sh*t fall.

Learn from your mistake. Yes. Knowledge is key.
Learn from your MS's mistakes, 360 fanboy.
And come over to our side.
We have future-proof, better reliable hardware.

And we love you.

But until u change ur wicked ways and join us...the sh*t shall fall.
And fall it shall!
On this day!

Sony Field Day FTW!!!

[Mr BlueScreen]

Do I know you?
You sound like a friend of mine.
Anyways, I'm going to put this in the nicest way possible. godofthunder... Your stupid.
1. your way off topic
2. your racist
3. you have no idea what your talking about!

This guy is why Americans are seen as arrogant morons who don't go to school.

[Ogrekiller]

blah blah blah

[pwnsause]

"yea yea
blah blah blah"

deny it all you want but its been stated over and over and over again. Blu-ray is needed. it doesnt surprise me that a dev such as Carmack is stating this.

[Ogrekiller]

admittedly there's not much I can do to spin this. Better to take the lumps now than later.

[RonDeMuerte]

you keep supporting outdated hardware and technology while software continues to progress and expand........This just confirms what we've known all along......X-bots are stupid...and they hate change!! haha :)

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Yo mean like a slow Blu-Ray dive that forces you to install games, or how about that GPU and RAM problem?

:)

[silverchode]

the true outdated hardware is the one without built in wifi and has the need for multiple disks and comes with wired controllers :)

[juuken]

Jason, shut the hell up.

Didn't you get the memo?

THE 360 IS A LAST GEN CONSOLE. MICROSOFT EITHER NEEDS TO CHANGE THEIR TUNE OR SONY IS GOING TO BE TAKING UP SECOND PLACE IN NO TIME.

And installs are not slow moron. My installs take a few minutes and it'll only run slow because of a slow connection.

ALL ABOARD THE FAIL TRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAIN!

And look, you're spinning even more crap!

Just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning...SPIN, SPIN, SPIN.

[Homicide]

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA! This is freaking hilarious. Where are all the other bots? I rather have an install than having a game that looks worse.

The PS3 has a built in wifi, hd movie player and has HDD standard. For the 360, you need to purchase an add on for wifi, hd dvd (dead already), and arcade owners need to waste money on an overpriced HDD.

[pwnsause]

"Outdated hardware,
Yo mean like a slow Blu-Ray dive that forces you to install games, or how about that GPU and RAM problem?"

Do you see the PC streaming Games via DVD drive smallbrain? no it installs to the HDD in combination with running with the Disc drive. sorry to burst your bubble, look at the bright side at least you tried hard to get the fanboy of the week award lol.

BTW funny that you say a GPU and RAM problem, because that is the number one reason why you wont get games such as MGS4 or Killzone 2 or better yet, Heavy Rain, because the PS3 has a "Defect" as you say LMAO. you're so full of fail, go be fat somewhere else.

[zo6_lover27]

Bluray is faster than DVD, I have a link
http://www.gamespot.com/pag...

And you obviously don't know anything about the ps3's ram, the GPU has 512mb of ram, so does the CPU and Cell can function as a CPU and GPU.
Its semi complicated so I won't explain

[pwnsause]

Do some research about XDR ram before you go out and talk sh*t http://www.rambus.com/us/pr... thats what I did before I brought myself a PS3.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

360 = lack of storage, over heating in "older models" have been fixed

PS3 = lack of RAM, old GPU, slow Blu Drive, installs, and a CPU no one but Sony understands

Droids = doing what ever they can to deny the obvious RAM problem with the PS3<--- that sh!t is priceless

[pwnsause]

Keep the spin going, you know everyone here knows your dumb sack of S**t. looks like a dumb bot is in denial here folks.

ROFL: you are an uneducated brat. you didnt even went to read about XDR memory, you're such a failure.

[Playstation Man]

Um, RRoD'd 360s at E3 say no it hasn't been. The Hardware is still faulty crap.

[meepmoopmeep]

Due to the pandemic that swept the world a few years ago, we caring people at XAMP have hired some of the world's top scientists and doctors to help cure the ravaging disease known as FootinMouth Disease, which for peculiar reasons only targets certain individuals we'll call "X's" for confidentiality.

With help and proper medication, we are confident that we can cure these poor souls.

It's FREE to enroll but for a cheap price of only $50/year we will include voice chat, online play and other features that should be free in the first place.

TESTIMONIAL:

"I didn't know what was happening until it was too late. It worried my family and friends. I didn't know I suffered from FootinMouth Disease until i stumbled upon a XAMP advertisement on the Blade system of the Xbox 360. I have since taken part in their program and with the proper medication and support from XAMP, I am now a better person."

- John Carmack

_________________
A message brought to you by XAMP®
The Xbot Anger Management Program
"We piss you off because we care"™

[zo6_lover27]

You have NO idea how the ps3 ram works, and there is no problem, 512mb available for the GPU just like the 360, and a GPU that is just as(if not more) powerful than the 360's, and the CPU can double as a GPU.

Like pwnsause said
Learn about XDR, what ps3 uses, its a LOT better than the GDDR3 the 360 uses

[NegativeCreep427]

I think all these Xbots own someone (Blu-Ray) an apology...

[morganfell]

ogrekiller, just so you know if you need someone to support you I am not that person. Hahahaha die DVD9 die!

And dumb jason, how is a gpu outdated when the best looking console game is a PS3 title. (Hans and Franz voice here) "Sorry little girly man but your puny console doesn't even have the strength a PS3 possesses in one finger, Ya! Unt guess which finger little shrunken console man!"

BTW Jason I like how you changed your avatar to a depiction of a 360 after it has been running for an hour.

[Solid_Snake666]

jason360 forgot a little thing called RROD!!!!

[The Mikester]

you're just jealous b/c you know the PS3 is better.
Admit it
Admit it
Admit it
Admit it
The PS3 can handle more and can make the graphics on games look amazing.
Admit it

[morganfell]

Jason, you are a joke. Ram an issue? GPU? Hmmmm lets look at the biggest selling game this year. Multiplatform I believe. And every major site said better looking on the PS3. Denial pal. Nothing but denial.

http://i171.photobucket.com...

[The Wood]

lol, bubble 4 that pic

[beoulve]

OMG OMG, someone just bought a $299 console that cant play blu-ray movies and games, has to constantly remind himself that paying extra for something equally good is actually better, periodically sending his console back to shop to repair, convinces himself that download a 5GB heavy compression HD movie is actually better than 50GB Blu-ray, make himself think that HALO 3 and Gear of War will be the only game he will ever play therefore Competitors do not any games since he can only recognize two games.

[CrazedFiend]

Jason 360's got me all dizzy up in here!
I'm feelin a bit woozy (>_<;)

Can we just pause this ride for a second??

[FAQS]

Q:Why these xbots continue to made up excuses whith Blu-ray and RAM, don't have a minimal idea what they are talking about and denying about the REAL TRUTH that Xbox 360 is outdated, and that PS3 is the FUTURE?
A: Well, unless the excuses they made up are hilarious, how pathetic they are!...Poor guys, I must admit I never laugh so much whith them!

[power of Green]

Lets hope MSFT *the software king* helps the devs make an equal game(cheap bastards) lol.

It would be silly to let PS3's inferior hardware beat MSFT because of storage, or expensive storage in this case.

They do think the 360's hardware is superior, Sony faces an huge issue too as not all games will be this size.

Dude never said it looks worse, he said it will look worse if MSFT doesn't make an "concession" (a price discount for a certain category of person.). *If* Id ends up using two discs the game will supposedly be inferior.

[morganfell]

Ha ha pog you maroon. The game is built on tech from Carmack. Even he said the PS3 was more powerful. He remarked it was harder to use but that remark was made when the PS3 first came out. Those days are gone.

Face the bitter truth Captain Dunzel. Your day came and went. It is done and over. How does it feel to get beat by inferior hardware? After all the best looking console game ever is a PS3 game. Not even a smidgen of a debate there. Hell the biggest selling game this year, one that had 50 million dollars of worthless MS cash behind it looked better on the PS3.

360 drum beaters like you and jason are technological and mental dinosaurs. You are the proverbial stegosaurus. Big, dumb, and too oblivious to realize your day is over. It must suck to have a T Rex eating your ass while you get flattened by an asteroid.

[Sir_Ken_Kutaragi]

;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D
;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D
;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D
;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D
;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D
Everything Looks Worse on the xBox 360!!! ;-D
It's just the internet LIES that say the PS3 is not better than the x[PC]Box 360!!! :-/
Nice try xBot Lemmings and the KING RATS!!! YOU FAIL HARD!!! ;-D

[AngryTypingGuy]

Some say the 360 is a last gen system because it's discs don't have the storage capacity of BluRay. Yeah it doesn't have as much storage capacity on DVD9 discs, but they are enough for 99% of the games out there.

If the 360 is so last gen, then why does it handle most games better than the PS3?! Look at the new S.C. IV. Anyone notice the lack of anti-aliasing on the PS3 version?

Juuken, why does the 360 have better frame rates and graphics on most games. Keep spinning that one, spin, spin, spin...

[zapass]

OWNED.

suck it up xbaboons: your POS console is even trashed by the most die hard PC devs.

"but but but..." STFU and swallow!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA A, I need fresh pants again!

MOVING ON.

[Tmac]

Lol Angrytypingguy, you're a total friggin retard, SC4 looks the exact same on both consoles there's no way in hell you can even spin that, and for Jason 360, your like 10 years old, I'm not even gonna bother bringin' it up.

[Pain]

Spin AwaY XBOTS!!!!! and do it to this please.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

XBOX DEFENSE FORCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[na2ru1]

Bubble for you.

And Jason360. I pity your insecure behavior. Install, GPU, Ram, most if not all exclusives looking visually better than competition.

Yeh of course graphics aren't important, not until you start comparing Geow with Resistance2

[prunchess]

A lot of games developers have used the 360 as the lead unit to develop with. If the max. cap. for DVD9 is about 7.5 gigs any multi platform games are going to be limited by this. Which means that there will be less content on a Blu-Ray game disk.

How many of you out there thought that GTA4 was much shorter than San Andreas? I felt that it was a lot shorter and have wondered how much was omitted due to it's multi platform release. And as for the "Exclusive Down loadable Content" the 360 was getting, was this because Rockstar couldn't fit anymore onto the DVD9 disks? Did the PS3 get a cut down version due to the 360? Was this a MS 50 million hush job?

Another knock on effect of this is, due to the storage limitations of the 360 DVD9 are PS3 owners having to pay for DLC that could easily fit on a Blu-Ray Disk?

[IzKyD1331]

im scared the same thing might happen to FF 13

[prunchess]

I'm a big fan of the Final Fantasy series also. I really feel that the game will be limited by Square to ensure they maximise their profits on the 360. If this happens to FF13 we will see the online stores flooded with costly DLC that probably would have fit on the Blu-ray disk.

I could be wrong but could the additional content that the PS3 is getting with Bioshock have been included on the 360 DVD9 disk?

[Light Yagami]

You 360 fanboys are a bunch of retards. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You just got owned.

[morganfell]

No not all games will be this size, just an ever increasing number. Here is another wake up call. The Doom III engine was a kick ass piece of programming. Go back and look at it and then look at Unreal III. You will see the engine was actually pretty sweet. What hurt the engine was that Id did not develop the tools to license the engine. And anyone that has done development work knows that a great engine with no tools equals no engine.

IdTech5 is different in that they are building a suite and specifically looking at the U3 market and licensing.

As the engines are capable of rendering ever more complex worlds, as game features continue to expand - what you can do in the game escalates, as textures increase in size, as complexity grows period, games will continue to increase in size and required disc space.

You may be happy running around in a super linear game with small maps and actually few features when you think of it (some extra animations are not real features) but I and numerous gamers pushing the edge are not so cheaply satisfied.

First people said DVD9 wasn't a limitation. Now they are saying it is a limitation just not very often. How long are they going to keep serving that kool aid. What's next? More backward compatible xbox games to nurse your wounds?

And acting like DVD9 is just becoming an issue is living, er actually dying in denial:

http://www.joystiq.com/2007...

[pixelsword]

...but really, it only took time before the truth came out. Sony looked down the road at last gen, and if last gen titles could go multi-disc, then it was obvious we would need more space this gen.

[Wildarmsjecht]

Oh boy...a developer saying such a thing? There will be alot of flaming and anger from one camp, and alot of champagne popping from the other. I'm gonna go play some more Eden.

[Viktor E]

Cause this is just sad,I mean,2 Dvds and the game is gonna be the worst out of the 3?

Damn...

[kingOVsticks]

but we all knew that this day will come when developers just need more space,plan and simple.Microsoft have no one else to blame but themselves,this if anything is the biggest kink in the 360's armor.Well what a surprise fanboys SONY ACTUALLY KNOWS WTF THEIR DOING!!!

[RememberThe357]

Sounds to me like hes trying to get MS to pony up on that third disk :)

[jmalc]

And Carmack said Doom 4 will require "30% more horsepower".

I think all of us here can agree on what that means between the consoles.

[sushipoop]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA ROFL! Poor xbots.

[TheXgamerLive]

First off, no programmer/developer say's "will look worse than another console", that's insinuating that all versions are going to look bad, so this is a fony sony wannabe fan girl's made up comments to make it seem like the Xbox 360 version won't look as good as the others, well as usual it will look better and we'll all see when live demo's are introduced again as usual.

Fony sony wannabe fan girls, it's time you gave up posting fake interviews or making up your own interpretation of what someone's comments really meant to mean.

Fake Fake Fake Fake Fake Fake, in a couple day's an edited of the true post/article will come out, again as usual. This is getting so old wannabe's.

[Solid_Snake666]

ur in denial

[Viktor E]

TWO Dvds,and it STILL looks worse?

There's no way to spin it;Blu Ray is necessary for Hi Definition Content.

[Atomic]

not that surprising when you use a last century technology.

edit : why the disagrees ? the first DVD went into production in 1997. and that was in the last century.

[deeznuts]

Last millenium dude. I mean, that's once in a thousand years! That's like, neanderthal man!

Cro-magnon man was seen using it ;)

[Megatron08]

There is also no way to spin the fact that he said the 360 is way more powerful then the ps3 and that the only place 360 is lacking is in storage. While you can use multi disc for storage there is no way to over come the ps3 lack of power

[cahill]

Carmack clearly said that ps3 is way more powerful than x360 but harder to program

ps3 is more powerful . no denying there --Killzone 2, MAG, Resistance 2, uncharted

do i go on?

as for Cell it is immensely more powerful than xenon

[The Lazy One]

find carmacks quote saying the PS3 is more powerful. I've heard him say the opposite quite a few times.

And the cell doesn't do anything on it's own but sit there. You have to look at the whole system not just the CPU.

[GIJeff]

grew up a PC/Windows programmer. He hates anything that isnt PC-like. Thats why he thinks the ps3 is worse than the 360, because with his "skills", he cant utilize the PS3, he is too old school....like the 360...or xbox 1.5. He is an old dog in the gaming industry, and doesnt like to learn new tricks. A lot of the older "legends" are like that. That's also why they're games are beginning to suck. Quake4 was a joke at best. He needs to retire.

[RememberThe357]

Thats last decade not century.

[The Lazy One]

You have no idea wtf you're talking about.

John Carmack does prefer the PC and 360 to PS3, partly because of his background, but also because he is completely changing the way an engine uses the components.

He is a great innovator. Look at idtech 5 tech demos and the way it uses textures. That is completely amazing. He's even supposed to be working on a way to do similar things with polygons. He could very well increase the visible performance of video games by at least 3 times. He's one of the only people who's looking at ways to use the processor differently instead of using a different processor.

go find a corner and think about what you've said.

[deeznuts]

The Lazy One, I guess you call yourself that cuz you're too lazy to look it up!

http://www.xbox365.com/news...

Listen to that. It's Carmack COMMENTING on PS3 vs 360. Listen to it and weep. This video isn't Moses coming down the mountain with a tablet. He says, PS3 offers more peak performance, 360 easier for developers.

[kevin1122]

sorry to tell you megatron, he did say if you program for the ps3 right it is marginally more powerful than the 360. But the 360 is easier to program for and microsoft offers better tools so he likes the 360 more.

[Armyless]

"The truth is the PS3 has more peak performance on there and that's what Sony was looking for on there with the choices that they made and the Cell architecture in particular and to a lesser degree some of the video chip decisions on there, it gives it more theoretical power."

[BlackTar]

Your a fool. So what who cares whats more powerful gameplay make games not graphics but I have to laugh at you so BLINDING PUTTING FAITH IN SOMETHING LIKE THIS. I love all systems get over it.

[The Lazy One]

and in theory, a honda civic can be more powerful than a ford mustang.

On PS3, he's said the cell is powerful, the GPU is less powerful, and the RAM is crippling. (go to IGN, find the rage idtech5 tech demo and watch it). The PS3 version pre-compression hassle was going to be the worst of the three because of it. The artists actually had to create two versions of most levels because the PC/360 versions had higher performance.

[Armyless]

You can't just make up facts to buttress your argument. In theory, a Ford Mustang is more powerful than a Honda Civic. You had it backwards, and you only proved Carmack's point for me.

[The Lazy One]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsS...

[pwnsause]

doesnt surprise me. if people didnt see this coming, they have to be the most ignorant person on the planet, Blu-ray is needed no matter what. and its not just BD, its also the Hard Disc drive as well. sure the PS3s BD drive may be slower than the 360's DVD drive, but the PS3 wont run through the most important problem, which is storage.

[Viktor E]

I think Kutaragi is a genius,he saw the clear mistakes of the competition(Outdated hardware)and took a huge risk by including Blu Ray in the Ps3.Sony bled a lot of money initially but it's really becoming apparent now that the inclusion of Blu Ray was a brilliant move by Kutaragi.

[zo6_lover27]

Exactly.
I would also like to point out that bluray is actually faster than DVD, its just the drive the ps3 uses (2x)

[pwnsause]

if the BD drive ran at 3x it could of matched or surpassed the 360's DVD drive speed

[kopicha]

it really doesnt matter blu ray is slower of faster. i think you are also missing out the main point that all ps3 comes with a hdd as a standard as well. thats the biggest advantage over 360 imo.

[zo6_lover27]

Actually 3x would match surpass and be slower, DVD's read at different speeds depending on where the data is on the disk, bluray reads at the same speed no matter what, and bluray 4x surpasses DVD 12x altogether.

@ Kopicha

I agree, neither can match the speed of a hard drive but putting full games would take up a lot of space fast, so a fast disk drive is helpful

[cahill]

the Blu Ray drive in ps3 is faster than the 12x dvd drive in 360

http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

"2x Blu-ray Drive (72Mbps(9MB/s))
Single Layer (2x CLV) - Constant Linear Velocity (Same speed across entire disk)
Double Layer - Couldn't find any data but no games have been released on a double layer yet.

Entire Blu-ray Disk is read at 9MB/s.

12x DVD-Rom Drive SL (9.25MB/S-15.85MB/s(AVG ~8x(10.57MB/s) DL (4.36MB/s-10.57MB/s(AVG ~6x(7.93MB/s)
SL(DVD-5) 12x Max (5-12x Full CAV) - Constant Angular Velocity (Speed Varies from edge to edge)
DL(DVD-9) 8x Max (3.3-8x Full CAV) - Constant Angular Velocity (Speed Varies from edge to edge)

SL DVD is 1.57MB/s > SL Blu-ray
DL DVD is 1.07MB/s < SL Blu-ray

Majority of 360 games are on DVD-9."

[shazam]

mgs4 is the first double layer game at 33GB, but i agree with everything else

[The gaming GOD]

Most of us said all along eventually the DVD would hinder the 360 and the bluray's extra space would be a necessity.

Now that is starting to prove to be true. Let's just let it be. I admit it would be fun to rub this in people like the Mart's face, but it's a better idea to show we're bigger than that.

[RonDeMuerte]

You're basically just stating the fact that we're superior to them........but I gotta say....I've always enjoyed fighting fire with fire....it's fun.....so I say rub it in their faces!!!! it's the only way they'll ever learn!!! hahahahaha

[The gaming GOD]

it wasn't purposely done. But that's how it will be taken anyway

[cmrbe]

but do know that everytime thats something is in favour of the x360 versus the PS3 the xbots will be relentless in rubbing it in PS fans faces.

[The gaming GOD]

And to be honest, I wouldn't blame you for rubbing it in their faces.

But it would be good to be better than that though.

Sometimes letting them see reality stings much more than shoving it in their faces. Call it self realization if you will

[prunchess]

When MS bring out the next incarnation of the Xbox, What are they going to use for storage? Do they expect to have Xbox owners download their games? How long would it take to download 5 or 6 gigs?(probably 4x more as the industry develops)DVD9 is no longer an option and will only hinder multi-platform games.

Maybe MS intend to bring back the cartridge for the 720 or what ever it's called.

MS should have stuck with their HD-DVD, even though the format lost out to blu-ray and used it for games for the Xbox if they could.

[GameDev]

have the xbutt infantry or the xbutt propaganda outlets been fair to the PS3???

or have they LIED about it, slandered it, ridiculed it with LIES, made fun of PS3 owners etc etc etc etc and you want what now??

to be nice to them?? I don't consider xbutts real gamers and the sooner they leave and never comeback the better.

[The gaming GOD]

I'm not saying be nice to them. Hell no

I'm just saying be BETTER than them

[zo6_lover27]

2 DVD's and still needs compression, and so much compression it makes the game look worse, and you Xbots said bluray was pointless

[FAQS]

Q:
A: ...and the most weird thing is that they STILL denying it!...HA HA HA HA HA!

[GameDev]

about 6 months you can find the mart,bladestar,jason360 and all the rest of the einstein crew PROCLAIMING that compression does not affect the original quality whatsoever and that bluray is a waste of time.

CHEERS TO IDIOTIC MORONS WHO THINK THEY UNDERSTAND TECHNOLOGY.

[joeynox]

what kind of crap are they puting on the discs. Also if the 360 version is gonna be the worst because of 2 dvds hows the ps version gonna look?Also who cares how it looks if it is a good game.chinese checkers is an ugly looking game but its fun. :)

[Viktor E]

'Cause it clearly states the 360 version is going to look the worst because of Compression.As we all know,the Ps3 uses the Blu Ray disc format,so they won't have to Compress anything for the Ps3 version.

So I guess the big deal here is the Xbox 360 version of the game will look worse than the Ps3 version because it's going to be on an outdated disc format.

[Dark vader]

This is exactly why many ps3 fans were mad about final fantasy going to the 360. Now i can never hear again a 360 fanboy tell me that blueray is not needed. Because if they do all i will do is find this article and show it to them. I bet you that there was probalby many other games that developers had to cut corners, just so that both console version would look similar, but they never had the balls to say it. Props to these guy for telling everyone the truth.

[juuken]

Exactly vader. That was the issue all along. It's not the fact that this game is coming to the 360 but it's the fact that the game might be dumbed down.

[SSCOOLCHEA]

thats the number you need to fit into 1 blu ray disc remember that number . so if there using 2 that's not even half of what blu ray storage is capable of . Didn't you read they wanted to put on a third disk but micro said FU .

[meepmoopmeep]

good point Vader.

i don't mind XIII going multi... but
if FFXIII gets gimped i will be uber pissed at Square.
put it on as many damn dics as they can for the 360, just don't gimp the game!

[sonarus]

I really don't care if FF gets gimped its the inevitable delay thats pissing me off. I don't care too much for graphics in an RPG.

[ice_prophecy]

wont be an issue if SE releases the ps3 version first, then dumb it down after XD

[mistertwoturbo]

"Wont be an issue if SE releases the ps3 version first, then dumb it down after"

God hopes that SE does the right thing.

[mavent]

your ignorance is astounding

[kazuma]

oh no they didn't! start the wars!

oh and also, this thread will burn. mark my words.

[kingOVsticks]

its getting a little out of hand but theres like thousand of nerds right know sitting in front of the computer screaming

"WE TOLD YOU X-BOTS!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH *COUGH COUGH* *drinks cold milk* thanks mom....ahem PS3 AND KUTARAGI FTMFW!!!" :P

[thePatriot]

even pacther could predict this flame war

[Nathaniel_Drake]

Was Carmack in the beginning sort of against the PS3, I just hope this opens his eyes a bit more of the possibilities for his creations

[solidjun5]

When comparing the Xbox 360 to the PS3, the more spacious Blu-ray format is the only thing Carmack likes more about Sony's console. Everything else is better on the 360, he says.

Maybe he's like Gabe and prefers the hardware to the Cell/SPU. But unlike Gabe, he'll actually work with it...maybe not, he'll probably pass it on to EA. Not a good sign.

[meepmoopmeep]

Carmack was sort of like Gabe Newell's dopleganger, before Gabe's donut binge

[DARKTRINITYxxx]

And XBOX360 people wondered why PS3 owners got mad about the next Final Fantasy game going multi platform. Not only because its a great RPG and belongs on the PS3 tbh. Its also because they are huge games can you now see that when it arrives well get a watered down version just to fit in with XBOX360,s poor choice on DVD format.

[marionz]

watered down version of FF on ps3 due to 360's lack of storage?
thats a bit silly really, i mean im sure by now they know how to make a decent FF game, it will be the same on both, if you had lost odessey on ps3 on one BRD im sure you wouldnt be complaining, and it would probably be no different then the 360's 4 disc, FF will be the same game its designed on ps3, just be multiple disc for 360

[Nathaniel_Drake]

Not to be a fanboy, but this was what I was afraid of, you want people everywhere to enjoy a great series no matter the console, but the rpg gamer in me wanted the most popular rpg to spread it wings and see what the next gen had to offer for Final Fantasy, hopefully Square can find a way to make it at least better then the DVD limitation can give it

[cellypower]

lost odyssey was made with the 360 in mind,but ff13 was made for ps3 with cell,blu-ray, and harddrive cache.SE Is going to have to cut corners for game to be the same on both platforms now.

[kopicha]

i have no issue that FF goes to 360. since i own both. it doesnt matter which side has it. but honestly i prefer it to stay ps3 exclusive only for 1 reason which is like what you said. even now that FF gonna go multi it doesnt change my mind picking up the ps3 version over my 360. for one good reason at least i know i dont need multi disc to play it. but what i am disappointed is that FF is suppose to be another potential game that is suppose to fill up a dual layer blu-ray. but since its now going multi. even SE admitted that they gotta figure a way to fit the game due to medium difference. now it really highly turn me off in a way as i small water down version of the game is coming near us.

[marionz]

FF was designed with the cell in mind.....show me one game that has been doen with cell in mind that cant be doen on 360, hell devs still dont know how to get the most out of that and even if they did the ram would still restrict what they can do so dont use the old cell is god thing, anyway we will see when FF comes out, it will probably be the best looking game on ps3 so no reason to complaine aye? unless as most multiplat games do it looks better on 360's multiple discs ouch that would hurt

[zo6_lover27]

I see you have no idea how the ps3's ram works, and yes, the GPU does have up to 512mb of ram, as does the CPU its just that it has two different kinds of ram, both 256mb and both shared between the CPU and GPU, but one type is mainly for the GPU and the other for the CPU.

[marionz]

what is this game anyway? never actually heard of it.

but yeah i guess ms should have thought of a better storage option when designing the 360 but nothing can be doen about that now, as ive said before i dont care about how many discs a game comes on aslong as the game is awesome, just played blue dragon and loved it, nearly finished first disc on lost odessey and enjoying that too.

so i guess if they get a third disc for this game the issue would be sorted? i dont know but im thinking if the game was THAT good wouldnt ms be going out of there way to sort out the problem?

probably be more big talk from a dev thats going to produce a golden turd

[IzKyD1331]

well, its coming from id software (DOOM, quake, wolfenstein guys) so im guessing its gonna be awesome

[TheColbertinator]

@Marionz Shut your damn mouth.Thats John Carmack right there.One of the godfathers of videogaming and the creator of the First Person Shooter along with three highly suceesful and critically acclaimed franchises.

[kazuma]

John D. Carmack II (born August 20, 1970) is an American game programmer, and the co-founder of id Software. Carmack was the lead programmer of the id computer games Commander Keen, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Quake, and subsequent sequels to Doom and Quake.

this proves one of two points : that you're just a kid and never actually grew up playing wolfenstein, doom or quake, or that you're just ignorant about the people who actually make the games you play.

[mistertwoturbo]

Thank you Steven.

Heck, I was a Kid who played doom online with a damn 14.4k Modem all the time. John Carmack is one of the pioneers of the video game industries, and changed it into what we know today. Without guys like this, we wouldn't have our Halos, Call of Duties, Killzones etc.

[GIJeff]

i respect him, but hes a crazy old bat now, he should retire and stop making bad games. Quake4, Quake Wars....very bad games. RETIRE while you can afford it!

[IzKyD1331]

POG:

"this will only lead to better games on 360, the PS3 users are just lazy to switch the discs because the compression and the 2 DVDs and the.......360 FTW!"

oh wait, i dont see POG anywhere

[sushipoop]

LMAO i'm sure he's watching over this right now not saying anything. crying to his mommy.

[IzKyD1331]

either that or dry humping his 360(we all know how much he loves that thing)

[SonySoldierEternaL]

I often dry hump my PS3

=P

[NegativeCreep427]

Where is Pu$$y of Green???

Can't he come up with another baseless excuse for why this article is false and why the xbox 360 is the most advanced piece of hardware on the face of the planet. Well then I guess retards need to take a break every now and then also.

[Orange]

really? i wet hump mine. it requires a more reliable "towel trick" to get it back into tip-top shape.

also, if this game is requiring 16 GB compressed, exactly how much HDD space is MS planning to put in the 720, since digital distribution is the way of the future? I hope it's a couple of terabytes at least.

[meepmoopmeep]

i knew disc capacity would eventually be an issue.
but i thought it would have showed up nearing the end of this gen though.

[meepmoopmeep]

let me change that, can't edit it.

change from "near end" to "mid-gen".

definitely not 2 years into the gen.

[watchman]

Wow, what a great way to sell the game to 360's owners. Good job John. Another thing I find funny, is it say's the game will look WORSE on 360 meaning the game does'nt look good but it will be worse on 360?

[kingOVsticks]

nothing gets pass you huh watchman?

[badboy808]

To my knowledge thier only talking about a graphical differnce and we all know it wont be major so why mention anything. It's something their not telling us

[dktxx2]

It might be a noticeable graphic difference. I don't think we've ever seen a game compressed to the point of actually making it worse, so Rage could be a major omen to MS if the graphics are significantly different.

[meepmoopmeep]

that's what i'm wondering... i mean how much damn compression does the game need that will make it significantly worse graphically?

this game better look better than KZ2 then.

[Serg]

Carmack likes to poke Companies on their failures, at least what he thinks are failures (I don't agree on his opinion regarding Cell).

He is about to become the pope of the video gaming business. The pope points at third world and the rich countires are pumping money in that direction...

Edit: @3.2, KillZone 2 is going to be bigger in size, 2 Gig for 1 level, polygon count on 1 face equals 1 map in KillZone 1, it is definatly going to be bigger. If it will look better? I don't know, but Carmack already admitted painfully that Tech 5 won't produce the best looking graphics when it comes out.

[HB-Sauce]

S**ty deal for 360 owners.

[mistertwoturbo]

Well 360 owners can enjoy Blu-Rays too. One simple fix. Buy a PS3.

[dkgshiz]

Every new game keeps needing more and more space. Thats why its pretty funny Microsoft never went with some better storage space. DVDs don't cut it for HD games. Almost every game dev agrees with that. Besides for some really super xbot game devs. The 360 is going to be screwed next year. I cant imagine how much space all those new 2009 games will need. Games now on average without being compressed are like 20gb if not more. Next year I bet games are going to be like 30gb or more. The 360 is pretty much the crippled step child of gaming. Prepare for 6-8 disks on average 360 users.

[Aclay]

I remember last year all those Xbox 360 fanboys were saying crap like, "Blu-ray isn't for games, Blu-ray is for movies", and now the fools who said that are eating their words.

Sony knew what they were doing when they put Blu-ray in the PS3. DVD is last gen, Blu-ray is the future. We were playing on DVD's last gen with the PS2 and Xbox, this is 7th generation now.

[Defectiv3_Detectiv3]

as if 7.5gb on a DVD9 is enough space.

"According to Carmack, the royalty fees to include a third disc in the Xbox 360 version would be so high that it simply isn't a feasible solution..."

It cracks me up that people are still waiting for a 360 version of MGS4. Let's see, 50gb at 7.5gb a disc, thats like 8 discs!

If you don't think DVD9 is hindering games just look at GTA. San Andreas and GTA4 were both on DVD9, yet SA had tons more content.

[Serg]

Although I agree, its 8.5 GB per DL-DVD, means almost 6 Xbox Games on 1 BluRay (8.5 x 6 = 51, 1 Gig wasn't able to make it), and considering BluRay can be scaled up to "unknown" size without adjusting hardware, MicroSoft is in trouble. Maybe they quit the console market in a few years and release 50 of the best games from the 360 era on 1 BluRay 400gb on the PS3 or something.

[StrboyM]

that would be around 3-4 disks depending on how much compression was used, the graphics and sound would take a hit, but the wouldnt need 7 disks. as is being stated above 2 disks with compression, without it would be around 4 or so

[zo6_lover27]

Yes, but you are forgetting that data that only needs to be put on one bluray will need to be on each seperate DVD, an example would be weapons, so a 360 version would actually use more than 50GB(uncompressed) of data
And like Serg said, their is an unknown limit to bluray, currently it is 400GB(16 layers) without the need for new hardware, and the drive in the ps3 is able to play those 400GB disks

[Serg]

Stuffing an obsolete drive in a console and calling it HD is the most shameless rip off IMO. PS2 games were using DVD9s even before Xbox360 came out and they weren't anywhere near HD. Sure some of the content were Making Ofs or similar, but it doesn't require the mind of a genius to forecast the need for more size, 1 level in KillZone 2 takes almost a quarter of a DVD9.

[Jackthepwnsaur]

I can already See Square Enix Gimping the hell out of FFXIII on the 360 version already just to save some cash

[Shane Kim]

Jackthepwnsaur

Truth of the day.

[Orange]

Serg: Kotaku writes "Hollenshead [of id]says that developers lose upwards of 2 gigs of space per a disc because of information Microsoft requires developers to put on the discs."

Redo the math. 6.5 x 8 = 52 gigs. 8 disks.

[Polluted]

Ouch! That's gotta sting. I imagine MS will pony up the dough for that third disc if that's going to solve the problem for them.

[DJ]

WTF? And based off what Carmack is saying, it's definitely a LOT of money.

[meepmoopmeep]

wow, i never knew developers were charged royalties per disc.
and significant ones at that.

[rhood022]

That is exactly why I fear FF XIII will be ONE disk.

[pwnsause]

and thats why single disc is better than multiple discs, devs dont have to gimp their games if the disc is Huge, not to mention spend money. thats why Blu-ray is a format to use for everything. see how DVD is gimping everything?

That is the reason why I fear about FFXIII being gimped on the PS3 because they now have to make a game for the Lowest common denominator which is the 360. thus killing off the FF experience.

[bluecapone]

everyone knew that space would be important

[cmrbe]

Blu ain't needed?. Hearing this from one of the early PS3 bashers is quite extraordinary.

[DJ]

This is like Dennis Dyack coming out and saying "360 Blows", y'know?

[AcidHorse]

Exactly

[supergamer]

OWNED!

[TheColbertinator]

Shame the 360 is having setbacks with Rage.John Carmack is one of the best developers and programmers in the business and hopefully Microsoft can give him a solution to storage problems.

Other than that another game will be added to my MAC portfolio.I got WoW,Guitar Hero 3,and Gears of War.This will be a fine addition to my blu-ray equipped MAC.If its delayed,PS3 version might be good.A new franchise from John Carmack on PS3.I'd never thought I would see the day.

[IzKyD1331]

why not get it on the PC...we all know its gonna look best on PC anyway

[TheColbertinator]

True but my custom MAC is impressive.Gears of War looks and runs very smoothly.Besides I feel like giving PC some competition.I'm also planning to buy Call of Duty 4 on MAC.

One more thing,if there is a blu-ray MAC version,I will buy it.I dont have a Blu-Ray equipped PC so need to get 4 discs.

Rage FTW

[beavis4play]

i have a feeling this story isn't going away for a loooooooong time.

[ELite_Ghost]

pretty obvious, this is gonna happpen for every game in the

[ELite_Ghost]

future...

[IzKyD1331]

"the royalty fees to include a third disc in the Xbox 360 version would be so high that it simply isn't a feasible solution"

ouch, FF 13 is gonna be really pricey, 5 discs?
compression FTW!

[Gitaroo]

MS probably gave SQ some special deal or pay them enough so it wont even matter.

[cahill]

no doubt there

i just hope FF13 is not gimped on PS3 because of the X360 version

[PwnShop]

If the quality is worse, you should be able to download this whole thing to your hard drive. Also Microsoft kind of dropped the bomb with the dvd drive and they should subsidies hard drives and make them cheaper.

[mistertwoturbo]

So you have to download 16gb's of data to play this game?

I only have 11.5gb's left on my 360.

[cahill]

they dont have a hard drive

How will a 16 gig game fit into a 13 gig space. premium's HDD has 13 gig free if u are unaware

[The Wood]

siren is 9 plus gig. A downloadable game that was bigger than what dvd9 could handle. what a turnup. Ms had better lower their hdd prices..........qwik

[SONY Insider]

.

[Dark vader]

How many years does the 360 have in the market already three, four? microsoft will be force to bring out another console with a better media storage in the next two years. I guess people are not laughing now at sony huh.

[SONY Insider]

By next year, the change will already have taken it's course. People will be looking back at now and the recent months, even since the PS3's launch, and chuckling at how things used to be seen in the media.

[Playstation Man]

Nasim? Seriously, where's Nasim Detective when you need him, lol.

EDIT: I didn't misinterpret anything. What are you talking about? OF COURSE 360 is screwed and losing steam. Look at sales, 3rd party support (recently Activision), the fall line-up, etc, etc, etc....NOW THIS which we all knew was coming.

The way you just claimed not to be anyone was quite formal and I think a little TOO formal, lol. Hmmmm....

[SONY Insider]

no I am not that person. I am no one commonly known here, nor a major contributor in any way that people will ever recognize.

btw, I believe you misinterpreted what I said. I am referring to the fact, alluded to already by several developers, that by next year the 360 will have lost it's momentum and PS3 will become the dominant platform. Hence, "The end has begun".

[juuken]

...^-^

[Death]

Carmack is trying to get Microsoft to lower royalty fees so he can include a third disc. I honestly had no idea royalties were paid per disc, I assumed it was per game. If this is the case, it would be beneficial to Microsoft to change their policy so devs don't use this as a reason to limit Xbox 360 development.

Is Blu-Ray beneficial for gamers? Apparently it is beneficial to developers as far as royalties go. Developers still struggle with Blu-Ray though which is why we are seeing mandatory installs and increased load times. Over time, these issues should become non-existent. The other thing people always fail to realize is there is a cost associated with "longer" or "bigger" games. I keep seeing Final Fantasy used as an example. The fear is Square will make the game smaller because of DVD's limitations. It's a simple fact multiple DVD's can be used, but that isn't what limits development. Cost is the number one concern with anyone. Just because Square could make the game longer due to Blu-Ray being a larger storage format, doesn't necessarily mean it would be beneficial for them to use it. Why spend millions of dollars in extra development if it doesn't change the amount of games sold?

Once again, over time as more and more middleware is available, more games will take advantage of the additional space. For now though, the biggest thing limiting games isn't the storage format as much as it is development cost. This hasn't changed over the last decade, the only thing different is devs have one less barrier to get around.

-Death

[cellypower]

Your 100% right.Let's go back to using Cd's then.

[DJ]

Has nothing to do with storage formats, and that's definitely not what we're reading here, nor have experienced or witnessed. A lot of gamers refrained from buying early multiplatform titles on PS3 because the 360 versions were noticeably better. It's obvious what will happen if the situation is reversed.

DVD usage does affect development because most games simply can't be split across multiple discs, especially sports and free-roaming titles.

[Death]

More storage is always a good thing, but using this storage isn't something that happens "quickly". When you need to load 4-5 gigs of data to the HDD to make a Blu-Ray game work, this should paint a pretty clear picture that shows there are still technical hurdles involved in using this storage space efficiently today. Over time it will get better, but for now it is far from a walk in the park.

As for games getting bigger and longer because of Blu-Ray, technically they can. Realistically we haven't seen it yet. The transition from cart to CD didn't make games longer. Going from CD to DVD cut down on the number of discs needed to play a game, but didn't make them longer. Blu-Ray hasn't made games longer yet either. What each jump in storage has done is increased the amount of information that is available on screen and at a sustainable time. In other words, they look prettier.

-Death

[AcidHorse]

Your comment is a work of fanboy genius. John has always stood up for the Xbox brand. It is more LOGICAL that there will be a noticeable difference when they unveil the game, they just put it out there instead of slapping everyone unexpectedly.

[cmrbe]

good post as usual and i agree with some of your points but its not just about filling up the space. With game assests increasing in size a 8 hour next gen HD game for example will i guess take 3 times as much space as a similar last gen SD game in length. Its just plain common sense.

I agree that bigger space donsent nescessialry always mean longer game but games over time from one gen to another do increase in length due mainly to the increase in space. For example Super Mario compare to FF7. I once saw someone finish Mario in about 5 minutes.

Yes more space nowdays means flasiher stuff on the screen and thats the point. From one gen to next people have always looked at how graphics have improved from the last.

[mistertwoturbo]

I don't think more space translates to longer games. This doesn't seem to be the point. The point is, in order to fit the high definition content onto a DVD, you'll have to compress things to make them fit. In a sense, which hurts the quality of the game.

[Hannibaal]

Data is not being loaded onto the HDD to make the games "work". You install software to your PC to make them run BETTER, you install games to your PC to make them run BETTER, installs will be coming to the 360 later this year to make games run BETTER. None of this is just so the games "work". It's so games work BETTER!

By installing a game to the PS3, less data needs to be unpacked into memory while running. Unnecessary support data can be stored on the HDD saving valuable RAM.

[The Wood]

for that spinbuster

bubble

[Figboy]

are you dizzy yet?

you know, from all that spin?

the fact of the matter is that EVERY GENERATION of consoles from the Commadore 64 to the Playstation 3 has had an increase in storage capacity.

NES cartridges were bigger than Atari cartridges.

SNES cartridges were bigger than NES cartridges.

CDs were bigger than SNES cartridges (and N64 cartridges)

DVDs were bigger than CDs.

Blu Rays are bigger than DVDs.

now, WHY was this change in storage capacity necessary?

because games got BIGGER.

Grand Theft Auto III would not have been possible on a CD, let alone an SNES cartridge.

as the gaming industry moves forward, so does the storage medium in which the games are distributed.

hell, Age of Conan takes up 25 gigabytes on my hard drive, and that games visuals are hardly at the level of RAGE or Killzone 2.

it's not developer fault. it's asset size.

HD textures are NOT small. neither are high polygon models and backgrounds. as games get more sophisticated, those assets will grow. hell, the polygons in Snake's moustache in MGS4 were more than what made up an ENTIRE SOLDIER in MGS3.

developers like Carmack KNOW their technology. and if they say they have to compress it and the quality will "suffer" for it, you better believe that they did EVERYTHING within their power to work around it. they don't do things half-@ssed.

insinuating that Carmack and his team don't know how to work with technology is like criticizing Miyamoto and his team, or Kojima and his team.

in short, these guys KNOW THEIR SH*T. no developer would want their product to look WORSE, and they are conceding quite a lot for the 360 version of this game, and i'm sure they are none too happy about it.

i mean, if you were a writer, and your book was being published and sold at a few different store chains, but one store, due to it's limited shelf space, asked you to trim about 100 pages off, so they could line them up on the shelf easier, you'd be pretty irked, wouldn't you?

Id and Carmack will do their best to make the 360 version work, but they get respect from me for being honest enough to admit that, due to hardware limitations (disc space), some concessions had to be made.

i much prefer the honesty to them flat out lying and saying "both versions will be EXACTLY the same! nothing to see here, folks!" like OTHER companies have done in the past...

EDIT- also, Blu Ray isn't the problem.

look at Uncharted: Drake's Fortune. this game is widely considered one of the most beautiful next gen games released so far.

the game DOES NOT have load times.

the game DOES NOT cache to the hard drive.

it streams everything from the Blu Ray disc.

that game alone is a testament to what developers can do when they take the time to learn the technology, and utilize the strengths of the console. the Playstation 3 is designed for streaming large amounts of data. not caching data like most PCs (and the 360).

many developers seem to forget that the Cell and RSX have about 25gigs of bandwidth EACH, and they can utilize that bandwidth simultaneously.

when the two work together, pumping out calculations at amazingly quick speeds, we get games like Uncharted, with no load times, and no caching to the hard drive. the PS3 is just built for streaming data VERY quickly, and when you're constantly streaming from the disc, and as fast as the Cell and RSX are able to do, it doesn't matter how much data is stored on the disc. it will be layered on the disc in a way that seek times are low, and the data that needs to be found will be found when it needs to be.

basically, Uncharted is a textbook example of a talented developer utilizing the PS3 in the way it was intended.

[Death]

You don't save RAM when you install data to the HDD. You save load times since the HDD is faster than a DVD/BR drive. If installs were simply done to make games run "better", they would be optional instead of mandatory for some games. Blu-Ray is tricky and requires some finesse, Uncharted is a perfect example of a developer that understands Blu-Ray. Metal Gear is an example of a title that doesn't. Many games on the PS3 have data duplication on the disc to reduce load times since their is less room to search by having the redundant data. Others load a huge chunk of data to the HDD which is faster than a BR drive to accomplish this and some titles do both.

Blu-Ray isn't a bad thing, but it isn't simple like people assume. Today, it is as much a problem as an asset to many developers. Once devs have a better understanding of Blu-Ray they will be able to optimize it and games like Uncharted will be the norm.

As for the assumption that I stated Mr. Carmack didn't know what he was doing, that is false. I simply stated he was trying to pressure Microsoft into reducing the royalty rates so he could add another disc to the title in question on the Xbox 360. This shouldn't throw too many people off since it is what he is saying according to the article.

-Death

[Diugu]

Imagine... playing a soccer match, end of first half (Insert disk 3 to play second half.)
Playing a tennis game... each time you hit the ball you have to insert a different disk because each side of the court is at one separate disk.

Sigh... I know I am exaggerating but there is only so far you can go when there are space limitations and games will stop evolving on the 360 sooner than later.

As for FF, I hope everyone is wrong because if they gimp XIII for some multiple disk stupidity it will be really frustrating, specially for me who played FF games since I was a kid and always enjoyed them on Playstations.

[badboy808]

bluuuuray bluuuuray bluuuuray

[HuntTheWumpus]

Well good job on Sony for including a high capacity drive on the PS3. I wonder if MS will just let it pass and be perfectly fine with having a "worse" looking game than the PS3 version or if they will pony up the extra DVD?

I don't think he is going to sell many games on the 360 with all this talk.

[sushipoop]

Dudes seriously whenever ANYONE says Blu-ray isn't needed just link them to this page LOL!! SONY FTW!

[Playstation Man]

Crab/Mart/PoG is/are going to have alot of LOLs thrown his/their way then!

[beavis4play]

all these guys will be hearing it.

[Playstation Man]

bloodmask, Jason360, etc, etc.

The list just goes on and on...

[mistertwoturbo]

I think it's funny that we haven't seen a single one of them in here

[Mr Fancy Pants]

nintendo showed us that you don't need good hardware or impressive graphic to sell and in the future sony could just create some sort of motion controller, update the firmware and the ps3 could easily last like 20 years with all its technology. i mean, we wouldn't need to buy a new expensive console every 4 or 6 years!

kutaragi really is a genius!

[ice_prophecy]

As much faith as I have in the PS3's leg capacity. I seriously doubt it will last 20 years hahahha!

[NanoGeekTech]

In theory the PS3 could last up to 20 plus years with just firmware updates....

Sh!t I am in....Blu-ray will be around for a while...DLC will be the future in about 15-20years..my PS3 HDD is upgradable to 1TB...

I love my Matrix in a Black Box......................

[DARKTRINITYxxx]

Marionz i think you know what i was getting at. How much of FF will be hacked to pieces to cater for disc space on the XBOX360 we already know itll be ported from PS3 to XBOX360 so tech speaking well get same amount content for the PS3 that will be ported over to fit on 360 discs. And this topic is about disc space for Rage and its only a shooter lol do you know how huge FF games are normally ?

[Mr Fancy Pants]

nintendo showed us that you don't need good hardware or impressive graphics to sell and in the future sony could just create some sort of motion controller, update the firmware and the ps3 could easily last like 20 years with all its technology. i mean, we wouldn't need to buy a new expensive console every 4 or 6 years!

kutaragi really is a genius!

[SSCOOLCHEA]

just read all the previous post from these bots , they love to buy a system every three years just to make a point . foolish

[Lou-Cipher]

They could always put on Xbox Live and not have to deal with any discs. (with a 12-24 hour download time)
That is what Microsoft said was the future of gaming right?

This is the beginning of the end of Xbox 360. The reason I say this is because MS is only willing to look at what might be available 5-10 years away (digital downloading)as apposed to looking at one of there current problems (lack of software storage for TRUE next gen games)

[Obama]

Expect future games to follow suit. Sad day for xbots. *popcorn*

[juuken]

*takes some popcorn from you and munches as well*

And they said they didn't need bluray.

Prepare to see the XBox 720 on the market by next year.

[Mr Fancy Pants]

imagine the launch of X720 next year. they just paid SE to get FFXIII and before they could see the fruition of that they would already had abandoned the X360 like they did with the xbox.

my point it's that the X360 was destined to be last!
MS it's not the kind of company that can work with so much pression/competition. all their bussines with windows operating systems has been done through monopoly. that's why everybody hates vista but it still is the number one OS on the planet.

[TheBatman_Fanatic]

*comes with pizza* pitiful xbots love buying systems every 4 years and they barely used the last lol

[Obama]

haha juuken I am glad to share some popcorn with you. It's quite fun watching bots cry I must confess. Bubble for all.

[360rxorz]

xbox versino cant lok that much wortse thn ps3 version bexause ps3 can probaby baly handlet it................... dvd is much fasteer than blu ray otiu so it is bettar............... bliu ray is mot much betar jsut litle differenfete provablty.....

[IzKyD1331]

im sorry, i cant understand retard.....please, go back to school and learn some grammar

[Playstation Man]

DVD is faster to read...bu...bu....OH YEAH! That's why games install now on PS3 and load faster than 360 versions! (Ex. DMC4, Soul Calibur 4 confirmed by IGN, etc, etc)

To grasp at straws in regards to this article? Oh man, desperate Lemmings...poor souls...

[pwnsause]

here let me talk to the poor guy, i can speak his language:

WATH THHE FUK R U TAKING ABOUTH? STOPTH BENG INDENIALTH! lol

[360rxorz]

It doesn't matter anyways. This game is probably going to suck. If it was an Xbox exclusive, it would be 10x better and the DVD size wouldn't be an issue.

[dkgshiz]

Yeah, you suck, learn english you douche.

[TheColbertinator]

Are you drunk? If you are,get off the internet

[zo6_lover27]

First, learn english
Second, like most (all) xbots you think bluray is slow and DVD is fast, you couldn't be more wrong.
Heres a link so I don't have to explain anything
http://www.gamespot.com/pag...

[meepmoopmeep]

DVD read speed
Blu-ray read speed

Google is your enemy.

[Serg]

Well most people don't care about tech facts they see numbers and go crazy over them. 1x is the speed that is required to watch a movie on a certain format, it's not a valid indicator for speed comparisons between formats.

[cmrbe]

Bot tongue

[cmrbe]

me why MS said the x360 is a HD console when it uses a last gen obtical drive. Worst still they didn't include a standard Hard Drive for all consoles. Its like them saying that Digital distribution is now but most people in the world still don't have broadband. They just don't make sense.

MS knew very well that DVD was used to the max last gen with SD games. I have no idea why they though that DVD will be sufficient for the HD era. The only conclusion that i made is that they wanted to be first to the market as well as cheaper with the x360. Only 2 years into this console war and their corner cutting and shortsightness is coming to bite them in their arse. This is a good lesson for them to learn for next time i.e think quality and think long term.

[Real gamer 4 life]

I agree with you 100%. This is what they get for rushing out the market, and trying to get a head start over nintendo and sony. I really don't see how microsoft can continue to go on like everything is alright. Soon more developers will complain about the storage space, and then microsoft is going to feel the heat. there going to be force to introduce a new console in the next 2 years or so.

[AcidHorse]

a bubble for you.

[cmrbe]

They did a great job with the xbox. They built a monster console that managed to seriously compete in the gaming industry that was dominated by two gaming giant last gen. They were even able to surpass Nintendo in their first go. The problem that xbox had last gen was only the fact that it didn't had the variety of games needed to attract a broad range of gamers. thats it.

However. Its like they completely threw out quality and longivity this gen when they were designing the x360 all so they could have a cheaper price tag and be on the market first. If they had bulit a relaible and future proof console and realese it like 2 months before the PS3. They would have been in a better position now and for the future. The lead that they had with the one year head start is dwindling fast and now they are their console is becoming obslete this early in this console cycle.

I guess its just a matter of experience. Sony delayed the launch of the PS3 because they knew they weren't ready but they knew that they would be in a much better position down the road once they launched when they are ready. They didn't panic. they knew exactly what they were doing. MS just saw big bad Sony and panicked and launch their console when its was not ready. This is the problem when you don't do your own thing but focus too much on what the competition is doing like MS has done this gen. Sony always follow their own path and strategies.

[DJ]

True, the inital controller was horrific, but the Controller S was amazingly ergonomic and the hard drive gave the system a big advantage over the competition. My Halo 2 matches almost always loaded instantaneously.

The Elite 360 seems to be a glimpse at what the console was originally meant to be, but there's still vital pieces that are missing. I know they'll probably put these items in the next Xbox console, but by then it may not be enough and/or may be too late.

[Hannibaal]

The PS3 was delayed because of blu ray. Certain members of the AACS (Microsoft) used their veto power to contend final specs of the DRM used in HD DVD & Blu Ray. Thus delaying the PS3 so Ms could have their head start.

[pwnsause]

Microsoft took 2 steps ahead and went back 10 spaces for:

1.leaving out HDD as standard(The original Xbox had it for crying out loud)

2.not adding an HD disc drive(HD-DVD was around the corner when Microsoft launched the 360, the specs for HD-DVD were set. they could of worked out a deal with Toshiba to get the 360 out early with HD-DVD, but they were afraid this wouldnt help them penetrate sales, thus the effect, they allowed BD to win and they are now stuck with a DVD drive, im pretty sure that if they realeased the 360 with a built in HD-DVD drive in the first place, they could of won not only the console war, but also help defeat sony in the format war. but it goes to show you that microsoft doesnt like to take risks, instead they pay and bribe companies to do their bidding.)

[The Wood]

so they could get more money..................simple. ..... their greed or mis-sight has weakened their consoles lifespan

[Black_Jack]

its like that old story, tortoise beats the hare, msoft released first and shot off at the gate but wont have the steam left in their console to win in the long run. ps3 had a slow start but its got the substance to chug along and perform for years, 10 years. i dont care what anyone says if any console has got a chance of lasting 10 years, its the ps3! xbox will be out of steam well before then.

this article shows why.

[SSCOOLCHEA]

people that says there watching HD on the crapbox microsoft is lying to you . All your downloaded movies are upconverted from dvd and you say its HD .

[Real gamer 4 life]

Kudos to sony for thinking ahead, i am glad to see that sony wasn't just talking out their @ss when they said blueray was needed. I give credit where credit is due. So sony you were the smarter company with choosing the right format and looking ahead.

[hadouken007]

is the folk that approve this story sayin poor MS, or ten things MS needs to change and all that BS. THIS dont get a high flame rate like when sony screws up.

[TheColbertinator]

Your kidding right.360 fanboys mocked on the PS3 fans for 2 years like they were dogs.Times are changing again in the industry.I say Let every dog have his day.Whether its going to become more difficult for Microsoft is hard to say.

[cyclindk]

I get that they (microsoft) didn't go blu-ray as it is owned by Sony, but why they didn't at least utilize HD DVD capabilities for their games? Any Xboxists know why Microsoft didn't go that route, just curious?

[meepmoopmeep]

MS never cared about HDDVD, they backed it because they wanted to hinder Sony. end of story. well, that and i don't think HDDVD was ready for the 360 launch.

MS never intended the 360 for the long term. they wanted it out asap to try to steal the spot from sony and nintendo.

[catchnvampire]

Costs....If they had factored in a HD DVD drive, at that time, the cost of the console would have gone up exponentially and with that market penetration goes down drastically. But on hindsight, that was very very shortsighted.

[rob6021]

I think MS didn't go with HD-DVD because it would only serve to hinder their plan to eventually offer everything via download only. They wanted developers being used to developing with high compression and limiting the size of games so they would be more ready to make the transition to download-only. They figured using DVD would force 3rd parties to develop to lowest common denominator - but not everyone is doing this apperently.

[Rob0g0rilla]

Lol, never heard of this game. But a FPS on 3 discs is insane. I'm getting quite sick of FPS. Please move on to another genre.

Thanks crmbe.
Wow, head to head with the popular unreal engine? That's crazy.

Lol, this isn't the first time the 360 has had a space issue with a game. MLB 2k8 had to remove content from the disc to fit the game on there. You had to download the content off of live to get the actual complete game. Games are getting bigger like Rockstar said. DVD space is becoming a serious issue for 360. Never thought I would see this happening.

[cmrbe]

But i am sure you have heard of ID. ID are one of the pioneers of FPS and Carmack is a legendary dev. This is huge not just for this game but more so about this new engine by ID. This engine will mostly likely go head to head with the Unreal engine and the fact that it already has problems with space is a potential big problem for MS.

[Whoooop]

That's the problem with not thinking ahead.

Concentrating on the present is good, but not with technology. Microsoft thought they had this gen figured out and now they just can't keep up.

In 2009 the 360 will be almost obsolete in terms of technology...

[silverchode]

lets all be mature here.

[cmrbe]

You are in the "FUN ZONE!!"

[FAQS]

"...lets be mature"
A: Yeah man, stop being xbots! HA HA HA HA !

[silverchode]

rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabblerabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabblerabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabblerabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabblerabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabblerabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabblerabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble

[myke6699]

If anyone hasn't seen the trailer, head over to the main page of Shacknews (where the full article is). It looks pretty good, too bad it won't be as good on the 360.
And yes, the problem lies in the hardware, no matter how you look at it.

[cellypower]

Here you go http://www.gametrailers.com...

[DA_SHREDDER]

FF 13 can't be done on the 360. If a game like this is having trouble,, imagine how hard is it for a AAA quality title gonna have when it comes to multiple disc and compression issues. I love both systems, but the ps3 is the better machine with the better hardware, and its time you xbox dudes realize what you are really missing out on.

[RobertGonz69]

wonder MGS4 won't ever go to the 360. It would need 6 to 8 discs. Then Konomi would end up paying the extra discs to M$. Just joking. I love u all.

[poopsack]

interesting, do any footage or screenshots exist of this, "Rage"

Edit: http://www.gametrailers.com...

[AcidHorse]

Oh christcrackers, hilarious. John was down on the PS3 2 yrs ago, I suppose Microsoft forgot to send his hush money :D

[Snukadaman]

You people think there wont be a fix about this....if the xbox version is indeed the worst it would be a waste of time to even bother and go forth with that version and lose money???....use your heads droids.....granted its not enough space but there are plenty of things to work around that...blue dragon and infinite undiscovery says hello.

hahahah end of the xbox....with playing games on psn a disaster theres still a ps3 in existence...stop trying to think this console war is over droids...and go play some slow calibur 4 on psn.

@we always beat oakland so your prediction sucks harder then your precious ps3...the patriots hahahahahahahahahha

And im also quite positive this wont be the last multiplatform game where developer says it needs more space but if anyone is as flexible about breaking rules its microsoft.....you droids jumped on this faster then a drunken sorority sister...too bad you dont use common sense much.

9 disagrees and the only person with the balls to comment does not even say anything pertinent about my comments...nice one droids.

[Playstation Man]

I know 90% of all negative news as of late is pertaining to your console and all and your Chargers yet again will fail this year to reach the superbowl, but that's no reason to cry.

It's okay. I'm sure MORE and MORE devs will likely come out about disc space and all eventually and I know sales, 3rd party support (now activision) and the fall lineup and all as of late is all in the PS3's favor (hit 14 million 7 months before 360, outsells it worldwide), but PLEASE, don't cry.

Here, if this makes you feel better I guarantee the Chargers will lose in the playoffs to New England BUT will beat Oakland twice this year. Congrats!

EDIT: I don't cheer for New England in particular...I don't cheer for them at all actually. But I do recall a few beatings they've given the Chargers lately. Doubt that'll change this year...

[SonySoldierEternaL]

keep spinning the facts ASS CLOWN

[Snukadaman]

Spinning..im not making excuses...I even conceded that indeed there will be more games down the line that will probably need more space...work on your definitions clown shoes.

[cmrbe]

rage in your eyes

[Rob0g0rilla]

"9 disagrees and the only person with the balls to comment does not even say anything pertinent about my comments...nice one droids."

100+ comments eating clowns like you alive and no one has the balls to say anything about it.

Lol, breaking the rules? Ha, you guys better get ready for some installs then. That's probably the only way. Or on a 3rd disc. I hate to break it to you but your screwed either way. You see...all your friends figured that out and decided not to comment at all. Best if you did the same.

But it's really not that bad because we don't have a lot of issues with space now. I don't think this should bother anyone. Well, maybe you and you won't sleep tonight. At least it's still coming to 360.

[cmrbe]

funny. I thought the x360 DVD drive is part of the x360 hardware lol

[ForROME]

Wow thats a ass whooping...

[Playstation Man]

MASSIVE DAMAGE!!!

[juuken]

U-Ultra combo!

[kingOVsticks]

COMBO BREAKER!!!!!!!

[The Mikester]

Ha no kidding. that really is a a** wooping

[ape007]

finish him!!!!

fatality

[gano]

ULTRA, ULTRA Ultr

[poopsack]

its rotten.

[Ridrick]

.

[jack who]

wait till reviews come out :)

[J@D]

and this just ONLY the beginning of a bright future Sony fellows. Don't hate me cuz I'm wise and smart *cough*PS3isthefuture*cough*
^__^

It feel so good... but lets see and wait for more news

[Real gamer 4 life]

No one can argue with you on this one. sony is the smarter company. they clearly was thinking ahead.

[watchman]

If Blu-ray is needed how come games on PC look better then those on console?

[sushipoop]

You're not a PC gamer are you? PC games need to be installed, first of all. HUGE install.

[AcidHorse]

Have you ever played a PC game? Ever come out from under that rock?

*CLAP CLAP*

PC GAMES HAVE MULTIPLE CDS!!!!!! If you're lucky it will be under 5. I have Half-Life 2 for the PC, I believe it was like 5 CDs. Lame. Some data can not be seperated on to two discs; from what I am told that information needs to be streamed from one CD, hense the small installs before each chapeter in MGS4.

[tweaker]

This guy takes the crown for the most retarded comment ever.

[meepmoopmeep]

PC's are more powerful depending on your setup and settings.

comparing consoles to PC's isn't very intelligent.

[JeepGamer]

Don't sweat it too much 360 owners, it's not that big of a deal.

[Playstation Man]

.....

.....

.....

.....

.....okay no.

[SONY Insider]

This is why Microsoft has their heads so backwards. It is actually quite comical when you consider their gameplan and business strategy since becoming a big player in the online entertainment industry.

Let me elaborate.

What is MS's biggest plan for online media? Digital distribution. Everyone knows this by now. Why is this silly? The XBOX is MS's key product in the battle to "Win the living room", as they call it, over SONY and Nintendo. Hehe..I can assure you this isn't simply about just games.

But how are they so @#$%ed in judgement? The most common model of their "key product" in this fight does NOT EVEN HAVE an internal harddrive, or those that do hold a fraction of what PS3 offers. By now, the American market is flooded with millions of these consoles, and just shows that MS has shot a nail into their own foot to prevent themselves from reaching their goal.

What makes things even more @#$%ed up is the heavy rumors pointing to MS having a hand in HD-DVD's battle with Blu-Ray, yet again pushing an INFERIOR PRODUCT. But this is not what is so bad. It is in the months after the Blu-Ray victory that evidence emerged that MS did not want HD-DVD to actually win, and that their true motives were to "stall out" of "kill off" the disk format war altogether so they could push their Digital Download Distribution plan onto the world market.

Tsk tsk tsk MS, don't you look ahead when making such elaborate plans?

Consider what kind of company would enter the gaming entertainment industry and intentionally sabotage a new worldwide standard format for generations to come, all in the selfish, pitiful interest of making money from their online distribution program.....
with NO PROPER CONSOLE MODELS TO SUPPORT IT! They pushed to kill off a physical storage medium, with no viable way to even hold up their own answer to the problem. What kind of serious mess the world would have been in if MS succeeded...a world with no high capacity storage, still living in the dying 9Gb era, with a "new era" of digital distribution with absolutely no feasible means to even support it. Do you see now?

Tell me, MS advocates, how it is you can't look a bit into the future and understand such things.

For the less intelligent people here, let me show you a simple example of MS's strategy.

Let's pretend I hate having to eat, so I want the world population to change to a new era of drinking special vitamin drinks, with all nutrition packed in. So to start off the battle and win my cause, I flood the market with a huge first wave of this new drink....and it is simply bottled water.

You should all be thankful that at least SONY is looking at gaming for the long run. Even though news may be slow, and the biggest and best things are yet to come, be satisfied knowing they are not in this for the moment.

[juuken]

Microsoft baffles me. They have money and yet they don't know how to use it properly. They bought FFXIII and yet they don't have the space to handle the game. On top of that, they claimed they didn't need bluray and they're all fine and dandy. Now you have a major developer saying this...it's pretty clear that they need to do something about the lack of space.

That's why games like MGS4 will NEVER come on the 360. It would require too much compression. I can also see Square canceling FFXIII if they can't figure out how to compress the game on the 360.

Microsoft are IDIOTS.

Oh, and gave you a bubble. :3

[SONY Insider]

Add a few bubbles if you've appreciated these points. I shall continue to elaborate on things more in the future if you do so.

The agrees are appreciated but not helpful.

I know I shall be attacked down to being silenced before long after leaving such posts.

[Serg]

The fact that people are still supporting and praising this company shows that we have a major lack of intelligence in the world. A year back they admitted DVD9 is enough for the next few years. Just a month later they said Project Gotham Racing will see the content knife because of the lack of space. A year back..., and Xbox Fanboys still say DVD9 is enough. It was enough for PS2 and Xbox1, but not for HD...

[PimpHandHappy]

just wait for FF and 5 dvd's

lol

[Playstation Man]

along with framerate issues, compressed audio, loss of sidequests...

Oh! But it may have more saturated colors by the tiniest of margins! Important thing that is!

[ape007]

big problem ms

tbh

look worse,that means downgrading it

am afraid more devs downgrade their games cause the 360 sell well

ever since ms brought them selves and released the next gen early in 2005,everything has become a total miss

ms,keep nintendo and sony alone

enough courroption

[sushipoop]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!

This is a major concern.

[Jokerlike]

This is just the beginning of the end for 360 due to M$ stubbornness to include a BD drive in the 360.I will come back and bite them on the crotch.

[whatis]

"I will come back and bite them on the crotch"

Surely you meant to say "IT will come back and bite them on the crotch"?

[waznotwaz]

"IT will come back and bite them on the crotch"?

Surely you meant to say "It will come back and bite them on the crotch."

No capital T in "IT".
Full stop after "crotch".
No ?
3 out of 10 whatis,must try harder.

[Real gamer 4 life]

I wonder how is microsoft going to respond to this. i expect the damage control speech by tomorrow morning.

[read disc error]

Id hasn't put out a good game since Quake 3.

[J@D]

or a huge and juicy check on they box on the first hours on the morning.
^___________________________^

[read disc error]

you don't tell a market 20 million strong and growing that your game will look worse on their console. I think he's just throwing a hissy fit because Microsoft is basically telling the devs to improve their code. the only reason MGS4 took up so much space is because Kojima productions doesn't know how to code properly and with economy.

same thing with lost odyssey. I played that game. they could have fit it on 2 maybe even 1 disc(s).

[DJ]

Don't take Programming, kid. You'll fail a dozen times, for sure.

[AcidHorse]

Oh wait you can't, cause you are a nobody. Just like the rest of us. Id isn't the greatest developer (creatively they've been sucking it big time), but listen up you little punk, they helped pioneer the development for techniques like, bumpmaping, normal mapping, both techniques whored by your precious Gears of War engine Unreal 3 engine. John is infamous, like Gabe of Valve, for being anti-Sony. This announcement is unusual seeing how they refuse to 'learn' PS3's architecture.

And about Gears of War looking better than MGS4; you are such a little twat. Gears of War has the same rubbery plastic look that most Unreal 3 engine games have. AMAZING how Phoenix's hair is glued into place. It's obvious that you've never play MGS4 and are a complete 360fanboy. MGS4 has the increadable open environments, massive detail in everything (ie hair, cloth textures), tons of effects filtering, amazing real time shadows, lush detailed jungle environments (instead of the static lifeless GOW stuff) those things that Gears of War couldn't do... I could go on, but that's a mute point.... you are a slobbering fanboy, nothing logical will change your mind. I guess when I decide to scoop out my brain, I'll come to understand your brand of stupidity.

[read disc error]

http://www.xbox-scene.com/x...

"It’s been a few years since id Software’s co-owner and technical director John Carmack has made a keynote speech at QuakeCon, but today he unleashed an almost two hour long “stream of consciousness” speech that more or less touched on his thoughts about all aspects of gaming...

As far as Xbox 360 versus PlayStation 3, Carmack said that he felt that the Xbox 360 was more developer friendly than the PlayStation 3. “Hardware wise, there’s a lot of marketing hype about the consoles. A lot of it really needs to be taken with grains of salt about exactly how powerful it is.” Obviously since he’s been working on Xbox 360 development id Software has development kits, but Carmack said that he also has PlayStation 3 kits.

Overall, Carmack said that he wasn’t really happy with multi-core development, and that the returns initially will be disappointing. “The Xbox 360 has an architecture where you essentially have got three processors and they’re all running the same memory pool and they’re all synchronized, and cache coherent, and you can spawn off another thread in your program and make it go do some work. That’s kind of the best case and it’s still really difficult to turn into faster performance or getting it to get more stuff done in a game title.” While in his speech he said that this would all make developing games more time consuming and more difficult, he seemed to favor Microsoft over Sony."

[pwnsause]

how many years ago was that quote? that was about a year ago or 2. the fact that he said that the game needs 3 discs to run changes the whole subject on whether the 360 or PS3 is developer friendly or not. But he never said that the 360 is much more powerful than the PS3. even though he did say the 360 is easier to make games on over the PS3, he stated the the game will now look like crap on the 360 because of storage, listen to the keyword, STORAGE. STORAGE is the same reason why MGS4 is not coming to the 360. STORAGE is the same reason why MGS4 looks amazing on the PS3(High-Res Textures man), not to mention the cell and the RSX is helping each other out to output amazing graphics in MGS4.

STORAGE is the Reason why Killzone 2 has near CGI quality gameplay on the PS3. Heck, look at Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm, a PS3 exclusive, and it looks almost like the Anime, because of High Res Textures that are stored on the BD disc, not to mention the Cell and RSX rendering these textures. The Fact that you can put a load of High-Resolution Textures in a storage medium like BLu-Ray can allow Developers to Fullfil what they want to do with games without thinking about gimping.

its ok if your in Denial, but the Facts are there. Carmack, a Legendary Developer who made the FPS what it is today, not to mention a man who stated that he rather developed on the 360 over the PS3 is stating that the 360's DVD medium is not allowing him to bring a good looking game on the 360. This is something that People like me and other PS3 fanboys have been stating all along, Blu-ray is needed.

[LiquifiedArt]

Assets are the Hogs. Textures mostly.

[Genki]

thanks for opening up a can of worms on this one.

[Martini]

8:28: My net connection crapped out and I lost three paragraphs. Sorry. The QA session continues. Carmack is complaining about DVDs. He says that from id's point of view, 360's hardware is superior to PS3's but that BluRay's capacity gives Sony's system an important edge, especially for large game worlds like Rage's.

http://www.1up.com/do/blogE...

[cmrbe]

Tough Luck?

[cahill]

Ps3 is way more powerful than x360

KZ2, MAG, RESISTANCE 2, games at 1080p ,60 fps like gt5p .
enough said.

Carmack himself said that ps3 was 20% more powerful
http://forums.videogamerevi...

Plus this is Carmack - a die hard MS fan

[Kyur4ThePain]

Notice the absence of the usual 360 suspects.
LOL
I know you're all reading this...just won't post, will you?

[OOG]

well thats pretty sh*ty....o wells ill be playing this on the PC anyway.....

interesting to see all the fanboys come out and diddle each other over this news....its not like we all didnt know that space is going to be a growing issue with the 360 with games already having multiple discs

[SonySoldierEternaL]

where are all the bots?

hiding as usual.

losers

[Playstation Man]

They'll wait till we're all done owning them and come back and try to clean up by spinning this in a good way for their crap faulty console.

[Serg]

I can hear them say "2.4 bricks consoles!" as defense beacause there isn't much left they can do.

[Martini]

Tough sh!t. 360 has more powerful hardware http://www.1up.com/do/blogE... and PS 3 has bigger optical storage. 360's solution to it's problem will be fixed this fall with new dashboard update allowing to install complete games on HDD. How is Sony going to fix it's less capable hardware ?? They can't hahaha YOU ARE STUCK WITH IT ! Dream on :)

Edit: Dark general- from the mouth of the "great" John Carmack - the 360 has more powerfull harware which means it will always have a slight edge over the PS 3 as past 2 years have repeatedly proven :)

[Dark General]

They seem on par with each other. Each system can basically run each others games with marginal difference. Look at Killzone 2 and MGS4, yet you say the Ps3 isn't capable? Stop your trolling and come to gripes with reality and stop fellating the 360. Both consoles are on par with each other and are consistently one upping one another. You should be a gamer first and a zealot second.

On topic, they real atrocity is the cost of royalty fee's on games with multiple disks. MS should drop the fee's for them or do away with them so that it'll be one less things dev's have to worry about.

edit: That's what he says. But look at real world performance you are getting out of both machines. For every great game on one system that looks amazing and plays amazing the other console has a game equally as amazing. You can't deny that. Just look at real world performance you've gotten out of BOTH consoles to date. It's a stalemate.

[behemothzero]

You're essentially forcing them to buy an "add-on". PS3 has everything in it, hard drive and spacious optical media included. They can both blend, yeah, but the PS3's blender is bigger.

[AceLuby]

You'll be able to fit ONE game, maybe two w/ nothing else on a 20 GB model (the most popular). A game like this will take up nearly 25% of a 120GB HDD. At $180 a pop that's $45 extra dollars to store it on you HDD. Nice.

[kevin1122]

wow you are an idiot, he said superior hardware. As in he can program the 360 hardware better since it resembles the pc. He has already stated the ps3 is more powerful than the 360.

[NoxiousD]

i really don't like where this is going, but people already know that the 360 was released in late 2005, and technology is always changing, ps3 was kind of future proof. So i don't know what 360 is going to do about this problem. This could be a sign for the ff13 port of 360 also... its a damn shame

[Shadow Man]

This really sucks... what if microsoft allowed the devs to install the game in the HD would that help? Or better if Wal-mart is selling HD-dvd add-on drives for $5 why woun't they transfer the game to a HDDVD disk!

[Rageanitus]

First off, this is a nice shaft in xbox fan's face. Sorry but it was bound to happen. Although I play alot of pc gaming and technology moves quite fast, It is easily determined what drives consoles decent raw processing power at launch and focus on larger storage. Sorry but games are becoming more complex. PC games in general are quite complex vs consoles and I have not seen a pc game in the longest time run straight from the disc. Sorry but complex games need more memory, hence the reason why PC games require installs.

Unfortunatly xbox made 1 major mistake not including every console with a 60+ gb HD. If they had this hd from the beginning then mandatory installs would come to play and the whole need to have blu-ray will be pointless.

At least sony gave two options put all data on one massive physical disc or install data on a decent sized hard drive. Hell the ps3 CAN make due with teh 20gb version cuz most games dont go beyond 30 gb's so it can be filled up on the blu-ray disc.

LOL and guess what compression can only take you so far.... I can picture it already xbox fanboys crying that they dont care about the game or the developer is lazy. IT doesnt matter if you dont care for the game... but its just signs that games are becoming much more complex hence using more space.

The sad thing is I can still see many xbox fans in Denial and soon we are going to see xbox fans crying that developers are lazy. Sorry but developers each year are develope BEYOND what they did in the previous year... im guess this is how sony can up with their slogan Play Beyond the competion

[Figboy]

i mean, Playstation 3 fans had to go through so much SH*T about EVERYTHING Playstation 3 related, and yet, it turns out we have been right about a great many things:

HDMI an optimal way to view HD content? right about that.
1080p games this generation? right about that.
HDD standard across ALL SKUs? right about that.
Blu Ray will win the format war? right about that.
Blu Ray IS useful, and necessary for next generation HD gaming assets? right about that as well.

considering that many of us Playstation 3 supporters were practically laughed out of N4G and other sites ever since E3 2006, and Sony announced that massive price tag, i think they've earned a little bit of an "i told you so."

my question now is:

what ELSE has Sony been right about?

Ken Kutaragi is looking less and less like a crackpot as time progresses (but there's no denying he's batsh*t crazy, but there's no denying he's one of the most forward-thinking engineers in the business).

[Kaneda]

Ken needs to comeback and works on PS4.. :) HE is DA MAN! :)

[Dark General]

There's a paper thin line between being considered a genius and being considered crazy.

[cmrbe]

We always knew Ken is a Legend. If there is one person i respect more in the gaming industry than Kojima and Ted is Crazzy Ken. He always battles with Sony execs to get the best for gamers. I am still pissed he was removed for wanting the best for us.

[The Wood]

you're right. It is hard not tp gloat but i dont want to because of my friends, family and mates on n4g that have 360's . Its the minority of loud f'boys that make me want to throw this in their faces but ill refrain and let the others stick it to em........im calm, im good.

[Mcrmarcher]

Crap don't show this article to Pog if u do....he's gonna go Ape Shiht and spin this until were all sick......

[Sanhlami]

This is just the beginning.

[Ali_The_Brit]

ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

*points and laughs at all the xbots*

aaaaaah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

awwwww is the 360 version gonna look worse?

are the imediate problems arising again that DVD-R is dying breed for games and Blu-Ray exlusive to the Playstation 3 is leading the charge

there there xbots, oh i know your going to put a spin on this but dont worry, where not judgemental we just pitty you and laugh at you

*opens a fresh box of fail tissues to hand out*

[Shadow Man]

Ur rigth Blu-ray is need it and is superior to DLDVD.

U win.

[LoVeRSaMa]

Agrees with Ali, this is an Epic FAIL of high Proportion.

I can hear an echo through the internet of the words:

"BluRay, who needs that much space anyway?"

Answer: M$, Obv as now games are to big to fit on DVD.

[Ali_The_Brit]

lmfao bubbles ^^

[The Mikester]

This news has got to hurt Xbox gamers out there deep down inside b/c they know that the PS3 is better but a lot of them are in so much denial that they just can't admit it. It's so sad(cries). Not really lol.

[Valdass]

become a problem for the 360 shame on you and late more more more more more problems

[Allowen]

Let me see if I understand this.

In multi plat game 3DVD(s) is more expensive then puting the same game in ONE blu-ray disc ??

LOL,imagine FF13 game that will fill a blu ray disc and so it will require at least 4 dvds j
on the xbox360 znd that means the "same" game will cost LESS to buy for the PS3 ???

This blu-ray thing is finally paying off...every uber game coming from here on with 3+ cds = more expensive on the oldest console generation instead to be cheaper !!

HAHAHA.

[Martini]

While all the Sony fans are having a big circle jerk off over the "advantage" of Blu-Ray they totally missed the quote from Carmack when he says "that from id's point of view, 360's hardware is superior to PS3's" - I wanna hear some opinions about that :).

[Kaneda]

But you can't fully utilizes the hardware when you storage media will never let you do it. So still totally useless, oh wait maybe not. If you have HD-DVD player you can still watch movie with all that power.. :)

[read disc error]

http://www.xbox360fanboy.co...

lol, this guy seriously needs to shut up. he is pissing off both 360 and PS3 owners and ID hasn't put out a good game since Quake 3. you'd think they'd be a little more guarded.

[Real gamer 4 life]

From your point of view do you think the 360 hardware is more superior to the ps3? No its not, he probably said that cause the 360 is easier to develop for. Every game that out for the 360 can be done for the ps3.

[The Wood]

sorry . Each console may have individual parts that are better than its competitors but its about the 'whole package' so even if your quote were to be true its painfully redundant and null. A ford GT may have a monster monster engine but it cant beat many of the less powerful cars around a track. The balance has to be right and Sony is showing why they say their console is a next gen HD console

[Vicophine]

I believe an "ownage" is in order.

[Valdass]

Martini you american are you ? :))))

[Allowen]

So from here on the xbox360 fans will have a chance to choose if they want the next high end games to come in 3-6 dvds and look same(not 1080p and more loadings!) as the PS3 version but it will cost more.

OR

The game comes in 2 DVDs instead 4 or more and this way it will cost same price of tha same game in blu-ray format to the PS3 but withiout looking near as good :(

I guess now xbox360 fans will adimit that their console still rocks but the true next gen console is Ps3 and it alone.

[thenickel]

Well I just really hope that MS gets it right next gen. SO far I'm satisfied with my console and will admit that this is not news that I like to hear.

[Dark General]

Every console have draw backs don't worry about it too much. Just have fun with the games you have and plan on purchasing.

[Martini]

It's nothing - just imagine what it must be like on the other side of the fence constantly hearing how all you favorite multiplatform games are somewhat better on the other system be it more detail, better lighting, higher resolution or a better framerate :)

[The Wood]

talking about 'the next gen' already...

[fufotrufo]

8:28: My net connection crapped out and I lost three paragraphs. Sorry. The QA session continues. Carmack is complaining about DVDs. He says that from id's point of view, 360's hardware is superior to PS3's but that BluRay's capacity gives Sony's system an important edge, especially for large game worlds like Rage's.

lol

[avacadosnorkel]

after all these years spent programming standard PC tech he better think the 360 is better because he knows how to do it just look at Quake Wars on PS3 how he had somebody else try to make it because he's already behind the 8-ball on developing for the cell.

He was goin to start a club with that fat ugly guy from Valve but then he realized 360 sales suck outside of the US, PC gaming is still stuck in the closet, and like it or not the future of HD applications and gaming is the cell - which was developed by IBM and others.

[Tacki]

Don Mattrick: "We will sell more highly compressed software this generation than Sony."

Compression - Only on Xbox 360

[cmrbe]

too funny man. Bubbles

[The Karate Kid]

This Carmack guy is an idiot, how in the heck can he say that 360 hardware is superior?

Broken RROD, Dated Processor, Dated Format, Dated Controllers, Dated Media Functionality and yet he says the Hardware is Superior? He further states that the PS3 gets the Edge because of Blu-Ray? But isn't the Blu-Ray drive Hardware????????????

developer comments or what? Or perhaps did his words get twisted by the dorks at 1up?

360 has the Superior Hardware? But PS3 has the edge with Blu-Ray? but Blu-Ray is the Hardware LoL

So are you telling me that CELL means nothing?????????? LOL

Every developer in the industry has proclaimed that CELL is SUPER POWERFUL, has anyone seen uncharted? Metal Gear Solid 4? Compare Banjo Kazzoie to Ratchet and tell me what game looks better,

Heck I would even throw out that Ratchet looks miles better than ninja Gaiden two from a technical scale!

[Allowen]

Acording to what the ID guy said it is not worth to make games for the xbox360 if the require to use 3 or more dvds.It will make the same game more expensive then the PS3 version.

Don't tell me tha instaling games on the xbox360 HDD will resolve the problem.

The best way I see to make Xbox360 to indead handle that kind heavy games is to buy it via download instead 3+ expensive dvds.

If MGS4 ever come to M$ console it will be by doenloading the full 40giga+ game cuz it will then be able to cost the same of the PS3 version.

I doubt M$ will launch a blu-ray drive to their vg when they can win much more money selling their expensive HDDs and now selling via DL games that normaly could only fit in 3 or more dvd9.

[fufotrufo]

CEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLL!!! ISSS DA POWERFULLL!!!!!! KARATE KID SAID SOOOO!!!! HE KNOWSS AM MOREE THANN FAMOUSSS DEVELOPA!!!! .. the end

[gano]

I'm late to the party. Bubbles people. I wonder who will
be saying this next? Still microsoft is doing a good job at
exploiting people.

[myke6699]

He only says that it's easier to extract a better performance from the 360 than the PS3 but if the dev understands and use not only the GPU but the cell processor on the PS3, it has the potential to be much better than wht 360 is capable of producing.

[Wii60Fan]

To begin with.

[LightningPS3]

I'm a PS3 fan also, but I'm not crazy. So what if they said that, it would be the first time in thousands of games released.

You people still thinking Blu ray matters in gaming? It's gonna be next next gen, and you will still be waiting for developers to start needing blu ray.

That's insane, the only think gonna get PS3 back into this is price cuts and first party making hyped exclusvies.

[Rybnik]

Nice one with your tone....

through the various incarnations of your name changes and comment history, I would say you are lying outright at worst, and trying to mislead others at best. Anyway, you can't spin this. About your claim to no space related comments prior to Carmack...hmm apparently you did not hear about:

1 Ben Ward from Bizarre Creations (PGR4 content cuts)

2 Sam/ Dan Hauser from Rock* (content cut GTA4)

3 Yoshinori Kitase from Square-Enix (DVD may make differences)

4 And of course Hideo Kojima, who is the first developer to really show what utilizing a full blu-ray disk can give us

[avacadosnorkel]

just like Capcom said about the Bionic Commando download and guess what happens next...MS does whatever it has to so it can stay in the game. But this is going to become more common from here as developers start using the "PS3 version will be better" threat more to get whatever they want out of Microsoft.

[Rybnik]

Aaahhhhhhhh.....
Uh HUH,

I don't post here that much anymore due to the super-retarded fanboy arguments (the SC4 comparo thread was more retarded ** READ=pointless ** than ANYTHING I've ever read on NeoGaf--at least Gaffers do it on purpose to be funny)

But this little "revelation"--I couldn't resist. There is no way around it; bashers we told you for the last 2 years how tech advances and that Sony did have the right idea overall. We told you that DVD9 would hold back the 360. Well, here is that proof undeniable, you have been begging for for so long! NOW EAT YOUR CROW!!!

As most old timers here know, I have both consoles, but have been favoring PS3 more and more, simply because Sony really is starting to FULLY deliver on the loftily insane promises that they have so often casually made.

However, this news in fact saddens me, as it pretty much confirms my suspicions that FF13 will be really cut down and limited. I did not want this to be the case, but seeing as how an everyday racing/ SHOOTER game needs 2 DVD's, I am seriously concerned about the quality of a Final Fantasy RPG.

I mean really, has there ever been a console racing game that took more than one disk???

[slave2Dcontroller]

I too knew that this would happen to FF13 and its honestly why I was so damn mad at SE. I didnt mind that it was coming to the 360, I just wanted it to be the game that it was supposed to be and I know its not going to happen which just sucks.

We waited all this time just for the damn game to be dumbed down. I like both systems but its irritating when devs start scaling back projects and cheating Gamers out of the potential of said system.

[The Mikester]

This just goes to show that the PS3 can handle more storage and it's better. I'm telling you Xbox gamers out there that you need to switch over to the PS3 b/c it's cooler, better, and looks sweet.

[Massive-Delusion]

And this is why Blu-Ray is needed (At least for games, anyway).

[NoxiousD]

Who ever said this is one of many articles to come in the future are telling the truth. PS3 has begun to gain a lot of momentum and the final fantasy announcement did not slow it down one bit. Perhaps people know that with Blu-ray there would be no worries about storage. I just dont know what microsoft is going to do.. They need to lower the prices of the hard drives and come out with bigger ones so games can be installed and won't need disc... they need to make it a computer... or this problem is going to limit them

[Mark]

The 360 isn't the only system with this limitation. The game is being released on the MAC and PC platforms too and MAC's don't come with blu-ray and most PC's don't come with blu-ray so they are going to get the exact same crappy quality game as the 360. I'll be giving this one a miss anyway. There are other games that look better than this one that don't require blu-ray.

[Rybnik]

Sorry, are you that dense?? ALL games fully install on PC's and Macs because those are not DEDICATED game machines. They are general purpose and are engineered to read and process from installed data on the hard drive.

Your argument is akin to those that ask why console games only need to support 720/1080P while computer games typically can support beyond 1080P...(hint viewing distance)

[Kaneda]

PC can have multiple disks. You can install it on your HD.. Most 360 didn't come with HD, so you can't do installation, but rely on DVD to play game. That is different..

[Egzekutor]

There is no RAM problem on the PS3. Its a matter of using the PS3 hardware correctly. The best developers from games like Resistance 2, Killzone 2 dont seem to have a problem with the RAM, because the CPU is being used correctly. GPU in the PS3 is outdated "buahahahaha", PS3 will host a a home for an FPS Killzone 2 with the best graphics yet seen on a console and you are saying the GPU is outdated ??
PS3 and Nvidia : The Way Its Meant To Be Played ;)) .

The only thing I see outdated is the XBOX 360, developers are getting more familiar with the hardware of the new consoles. But unfortunately they cant do much on the XBOX 360 because of lack of space.

[guerojose]

"He stressed that the issue is merely a storage problem and has nothing to do with the power of the Xbox 360 hardware."

LOL! I can't even read that with a straight face; I wonder if he could say it with one :D

By that definition of "power", there must be no looming energy crisis - it's really just a scarcity of fuel, that's all.

You know, it's not like the storage device is part of the actual system HARDWARE or anything. :| But I suppose if the system had more "power", it would be possible to uncompress an infinite amount of data from a DVD, maybe using Super Duper Ultra Compression (tm).

[avacadosnorkel]

I don't think the people here want to believe you.

[KILLERAPP]

You win some and you lose some, will this be the start of the 360’s fall. Don’t know don’t cared as long there are good games on it people don’t cared if you look a little bit worse on your platform enlist you can play it and in the end that all that matters and as for FF 13 I know SE will make the games take full use of the PS3 but as for the port to 360 they will have a big problem this game was develop from the ground up to work especially on the cell but I am more exited about FF 13 Versus looks more mature and bloody.

[Zerodin]

Final Fantasy Thirteen.
Or did you little Sony droids forget about that?
Awwww...You did didn't you?
It really is hard to hear anything with all of the c0ck slurping you guys are doing.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

LMAO! im sorry but wow..epic fail.

Ironic you should bring up FF13..since it's gonna have who the f*ck knows how many disc's,and you dont think its gonna suffer the same problems as rage? ..plus it wont even be out till 2010 (on 360)

long after FF13,FFVS13,God of war 3,inFAMOUS,Gran turismo 5,M.A.G,
Uncharted 2,DC universe,SOCOM,Heavy rain etc have come out.360 will be on life support around that time.still rideing that gears 2 hype.

Then you'll get your lil sh!tty FF13 port,and maybe if your lucky your GTAIV DLC..

[ash_divine]

cause FF XIII will have the same problems, if not worse. That's why this article's a big deal Duh! Seems you're holding tight to an anouncement that no one cares about anymore. Cause Square's gonna have trouble porting it anyway(something I figured out long before this article).

[The Wood]

yes, you have it too. Good luck with that

You should never gloat over multiplatform games. Exclusives show the truth

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

wipe the skeet out of your chin

[juuken]

And that said FFXIII could be canceled for the 360 if Square can't work around the compression issues.

Or did that fly right over your head?

Lol, lol, lol...keep spinning the news buddy....just keep spinning it!

[highps3]

Every Ps3 user has said it from the start. Amazing how dumb some devs and 360 users can be.

FYI this generation is just getting started, can you imagine whats its going to be like 3 years down the line?

Also add to the fact that almost every big 360 game goes to the PC anyway, why in the hell buy a 360 now a days?

Like ive said sooo many times. Gears is the best that console will ever see... And it plays better in Windows (with or without the 360 controller)...

Then add all this to the 360 being able to run copied games and you sir have a huge issue on your hands.

[Zerodin]

Almost every big game on the PS3 fell way short of expectations!

[ash_divine]

that's right 2. can you count?

which is strangely enough the same number as the flops on 360. (Two Worlds, and Niinja Gaiden.)

[Zerodin]

Like I said, I have the stop all argument.

[Kyur4ThePain]

Final Fantasy?

What will it look like on the 360 compared to the PS3?
How many discs will it take?
There is no information available yet, so I'm not sure what it is you think you have.

[RAM MAGNUMS]

what did I say?

I know you love me baby!

When I Hit I Hit Hard!
Maybe I love you one day?

Consoles they come & go!

PSPHUKN3 just slapped miibox OFF the phuckN BAR STOOL!
I know I drive you crazy. Install bases are my world.
I'm SUPERMAN. Just lose it! Go crazy!
nowadays everybody want to talk, but nothing comes out
when the move there lips just a bunch of giberish &
muthaphukerz keep acting like they forgot about PS-TRE!

Platinum Trophy for
name of artist & both songs???

[Zerodin]

I give you the average PS3 owner.

[Awesomeo3000]

BAM that just happened lol looks like having blu ray wasnt so dumb after all huh ?

[Zerodin]

You tell me!

[Zerodin]

What I've got is salt.
Goes good in PS3 fanboy wounds.
Rage looks better on PS3 because of Blu-ray? Ok.
That doesn't erase the fact that Sony lost exclusivity to their biggest 3rd party franchise, to a system with a 33% failure rate!

[games4fun]

the only thing you have is tears in your eyes lol

use up your last bubble you know you want to :)

Edit: you did good job lol, your damage control duty is done now continue to live in a delusional world like you always have where game storage is meaningless and devs never have worries on the 360

[Zerodin]

Up until this story was posted, every last one of you droids hated iD.
Frankly, I still love iD, but that's because 360 owners aren't as fickle.

[ash_divine]

it's a lot worse on your side of the camp. Think about it, did you guys care about FF XIII, installs, and avatars. before Microsoft got all that? you guys said you didn't want any of that stuff(especially FFXIII) and then when it went multiplatform it's all of a sudden a big deal to 360 fans. didn't 360 fans say FF XIII was for queers? I thought they didn't want to play dress up with virtual AVATERS? I thought it was a bad thing to install your games?

so 360 fans have no room to talk when it comes to being hypocrites.

[LoVeRSaMa]

Agreed, Agree points and bubbles for you.

[EnforcerOfTheTruth]

LMAO there you have it ahaha

[yanikins111]

it has nothing to do with the hardware. Just the hardware :|

[Rybnik]

So what your saying is, "Its like Deja Vu, all over again"

[Metal Roses]

it will look the same ps3 has blu ray just for movies not even exclusives games have super awesome graphics

[ash_divine]

you sir, either live under a rock or need glasses.

have you seen Killzone 2, Uncharted, GT Prologue, Infamous, MGS4, or Motorstorm 2(that's not even all of them)? heck even Little big Planet packs heat in the graphics department.

nothing from the competitors has matched those yet. next time try to make yourself look a little less stupid. kay

[redmamoth]

"He stressed that the issue has nothing to do with the Xbox 360 hardware itself, and is merely a storage problem."... Last time I checked, storage was part of the HARDWARE!!!

[InMyOpinion]

This was not good to hear. I hope they find some way to solve the problem. If not I feel the 360 version will be severly gimped.

[The Wood]

I may of missed them but credit where its due i say. Sony knew a larger media would be needed for HD gaming. It was a simple equation that some dont like to admit because their console doesn't have that larger media. This is no nail in the coffin btw but cause the 360 will still force devs to make games that can fit of dvd 9 because of the fanbase. If sony continues as they are it may end up that the devs may get enough loot from the ps3 install base alone. Not now obviously but if the numbers replicate the ps2 vs xbox numbers then you'll get my point.

[The Wood]

not but cause. wtf

[InMyOpinion]

To be honest, that's like asking a PS3 fanboy to admit that most multiplatform titles look better on the 360. It won't happen.

As I see it, we might have reached a point in games development where games need to exceed the storage space available on the DVD format.

If MS were smart they would have dropped the core version of the 360 by now and utilized the HDD more for games. Streaming, storing parts of the game etc.

It will be interesting to follow this story.

[robotnik]

lets hope the game is good, I didnt like the quake wars demo.

[wangdiddy82]

that hated on the ps3 calling it crap and saying his games will never be on the ps3? I swear it was the carmack guy

[darkshiz]

Isn't that Gabe?

[VMAN_01]

Im sure your thinking of Gabe Newell of Valve. Carmack did say he prefered working with the 360 but he did not openly bash it and thats why Id hired PS3 specialised programmers to help them instead of doing a half-attempt like EA did with the Orange Box.

[SmokingMonkey]

gotta have bluray or a hard drive or better yet have both in every system, helps make a great GAMING machine.

[Hellraizer]

Yeah 6 pages of "woho go bluray 360 sucks" fanboy talk, finally justifying for bluray...after one single game and after all those years.

Oh yeah and carmack is now the new sony fanboy hero, after he trashed the ps3 in the beginning.

Rage wil lget a third disc, no doubt about it, end of story.

[PirateThom]

They may get a third disc, but it's an open world game.

So, you know, why even bother?

[Truplaya]

the fanboys are like flies around poo with this one. 376 comments already!

[Skadoosh]

375 comments? Damn this is a site full of sony fanboys. Definitely should be changed to N4SF.

[The Wood]

aey;)

[GUNS N SWORDS]

and square-enix isn't either, with " NOMURA and WADA" saying that the content will be identical on all 3.

also, not being able to afford a budget of adding one more disc makes me wonder of what kind of situation that their in, the company "mistwalker" as big as their money deficits and lack of funding they had back in 05 and 06 they still presented a solid game that was on multi-discs.

i also can't help to notice that this game is a shooter and not an RPG, what are they aiming for, a 40 hr game, textures that are above 30 mbs or have a ton of hd cgi cut scenes.

[Jackthepwnsaur]

thats because Microsoft gave Mistwalker a free ride by publishing the game. In terms of Square Enix and the Disc issue pertaining to FFXIII, no one knows how many discs its going to include.

[Deviant]

SE admitted there will be differences between the DVD and Bluray version though ...

----"1:56
Question: How will the Xbox 360 and the PS3 versions be different?

1:57
Says Kitase: We planned on having the contents the same, but obviously the Blu-ray and the DVD will be different. " ------ official conference

[GUNS N SWORDS]

with that being officially said i don't see any version being ripped off.......unless square-enix demands pc gamers to buy $200 blu-ray attachments.

all of the content we have seen of FF13 was the pc version, the cut scenes as seen in all of it's vids are in HD, and the textures we've seen so far look pretty clean.

[Deviant]

..which games arent developed on a pc ? o.0

[THC CELL]

they will make ps3 version look worst now for spite

[THC CELL]

it would be funny if xbox come up with a CD changer lol

Blu ray is the way forward
ms take note

[slave2Dcontroller]

You killed it! LMAO

[thereapersson]

I seriously loled...

[thereapersson]

Seriously, if the current 360 had both of those, there would really be no stopping the 360. Thanks to MS' shortsighted drive to get the 360 out to pasture so quickly, it's costing them more than people would like to admit.

[tudors]

When Carmack announced Rage didn't he say that the new engine was so advanced that it actually required less space due to it's streaming technology? I know there is more to it than that but I think that he did mention somthing along those lines.

Anyway only time will tell.

[Jackthepwnsaur]

no, its actually the opposite, when the engine was shown for the first time at that WWDC about a year and a half ago, he showed off the engine and stated that the that he was showing had over 20gb of textures in High-resolution.

[rob6021]

They force high royalties on multi-disk games for their system, because they are very scared of the real possibility of being the 'disk swap' system - giving the PS3 a tremendous competitive advantage.

They want to hold this generation back for their own personal gain.

More and more developers say they want more space, What will they do? It seems Multiple disks isn't an option. (Atleast one Microsoft doesn't want to let happen) Will 3rd parties ditch the 360 all together? probably not - MS is banking on the fact they will in fact force the game to fit on DVD and gimp both versions in the process.

I'm starting to think 3rd parties are going to fall far behind in sales to Sony's First party - if they don't want to play in the big leagues.

[Jdoki]

What's interesting here is that Rage it's often been commented that the game is an open world.

How is this going to work with multiple discs (regardless of whether it's 2 or 3). I assume that certain areas will become unavailable at some point as the story unfolds. I can't really see disc swapping working in an open world game at all.

[creeture]

i love my ps3

[EnforcerOfTheTruth]

Aahahahahahaha now them xbots must feel really dumb after saying Blu is not needed. Poor xbots, it's surely not healthy to be an xbot these days and it can only get worse. An FPS on 3 discs ahahahahaha imgaine what will happen in like 2 years :D

[OpiZA]

Well we need more high profile programmers to step up and actually let MS know this is potentially a big issue.

[psnCAShville_615]

I LOVE MY PS3

" one day i bought a ps1 " then one more day i bought a ps2 then one more day i bought a psp then one more day i bought xbox3600

sike

PLAYSTATION3 FOR LIFE!!! NEVER TOUCH XBOX NEVER WILL

[psnCAShville_615]

COMPRESSION+ GAMES = BLURS = NON HD = ZIGGGYS= XBOX360

BLURAY = PERFECT GAMES = NO LOADING!! YAY

[n00bzRtehgey]

It is clear that the DVD has officially met its match.

It's a shame the PS3rd's hardware isn't up to task, however.

Like all new id games, Doom 4 and Rage are games meant to be played on new, highend PCs, not sh1t consoles with limited ram. Fact.

[PirateThom]

Actually, this is one case where the PS3 shines.

Decompressing data takes a massive hit on memory, the 360 may have more memory, but a lot of it is wasted on decompression because of DVD9

Uncompressed data is really no problem for the PS3, it's what it was designed for, it's compressed data (when devs try to basically use the same elements as 360 games) where problems arise. The less compression a game uses, the better it runs on PS3 because less RAM is being uses to decompress it.

[Ali_The_Brit]

riiiight so tell me mr. 1 bubble, why should we believe you over this article?

FAIL.

[psnCAShville_615]

you know you getting a ps3 soon, how are going to miss killzone 2, that game has no loading screen you know that ?

[psnCAShville_615]

i hope you talking about the xbox with that comment !!!

[Agent Orange]

LOL great news for xbots! LOL

[ThaGeNeCySt]

Looks like I'll be getting this on PS3 unless something somehow changes (which I doubt)

[Joe Dirt]

Thank goodness, for once the Xbox 360 is getting the gimped version of
a multiplat, which makes me wonder, what if R* did not have to squeeze GTAIV on DVD9 disk and instead use a blu-ray, how much bigger and better it would have been.

The Xbox 360 has been holding back/slowing down the PS3 for long enough now on multiplats.

I wonder if Xbox360 websites like gamespot, ign, kotaku will be showing screen comparisons on this game, now that the PS3 has the upperhand.I think they will still some how spin it,

[gnothe1]

the 360 has OVER 400 games. how many of those use more than 1 disc. so going buy that, blu ray really is NOT NEEDED. its definitly nice to have, but NEEDED, no!! plus this is a multi plat game, how many looks better on the 360. so IF this one dose look better on the PS3 it still on a smaller list of titles that look better on the PS3 vs titles that look better on the 360.

[Joe Dirt]

The only reason why 95% of multiplats are better on Xbox360 is because
the Xbox was the lead dev platform, meaning that dev's had to develop
thier games with DVD9 in mind,hence stopping a game from being its full potential.

This bit of news just confirmed that blu-ray is indeed needed if you want a game to be all it can be.

Next gen consoles should get next gen games on next gen media format,
Not next gen console gets next gen game on last gen media format.

[fablib]

Boys learn to read the source... go to 8:28

http://www.1up.com/do/blogE...

It is a false problem.. In time MS will delete multi disk royalties...This is a competition that MS want to win...

The question is about the superiority of 360 hardware...
All the lies of Sony come finally to an end!!!
Sony LIAR!!!

[strotee]

Context, my friend, context:

"The QA session continues. Carmack is complaining about DVDs. He says that from id's point of view, 360's hardware is superior to PS3's but that BluRay's capacity gives Sony's system an important edge, especially for large game worlds like Rage's."

[assassin223]

really than why did he say the complete opposite in an interview with g4

http://www.xbox365.com/news...
carmack says "the ps3 has more peek performance" and that "the 360 is easier to program for"

http://www.ps3today.com/Blo...

[blade206]

http://www.gamesonsmash.com...

[Charmers]

Hm amazing how you can go from technical innovator to technical luddite in such a short space of time. I just lost all respect for Carmack with his ramblings on digital distribution. No Steam release = No buy for me. It is quite staggering how someone that made a name for himself as a forward thinker can be so stuck in the past.

As for the storage issue, I think that is the least of anyone's problems. ID and Carmack are not known for their tight coding and efficient optimisation I think PC, PS3 and 360 owners should expect Rage to run at single figure framerates. This is not a dig at the power of the consoles merely going by ID's history where they promise the rainbow and deliver a turd.

[Viktor E]

It's too bad the Rainbow in this Case will be exclusive to Blu Ray.

[guerojose]

Dude, c'mon already. Any developer who's thwarted by the limitations of DVD storage is automatically incapable of tight coding and optimization? You do realize that actual code accounts for a minority of the storage requirement, yes? You do realize that one cannot infinitely compress textures and other game assets, regardless of what MS would have you believe, yes? Ever see the crappy, over-compressed digital channels from providers like Comcast? Hardly "HD", is it? Why aren't you compressing all of your MP3s down to a bit rate of 10 bits/sec? I'm sure that'd sound really good, and just think of how much more you could fit on your iPod!

I'm constantly amazed by the ignorance - or, more likely, willful self-delusion - of those who hold up compression/optimization as some sort of holy grail of infinite resources. Hell, if they're sitting on this infinite compression technology, why didn't MS just put a ~600 MB CDROM in the 360? I'm sure they could've shaved a couple of pennies off the cost.

Whatever its other strengths/weaknesses, the 360 is saddled with inadequate storage for its entire life span, get over it.

[Charmers]

@ 14.1 - Exclusive to blu-ray is it ????? That's funny I hear it is coming to the PC on DVD so not as exclusive to blu-ray as you like to make out then is it.

@ 14.2 perhaps you should read what I said next time :-

"ID and Carmack are not known for their tight coding and efficient optimisation I think PC, PS3 and 360 owners should expect Rage to run at single figure framerates."

I was NOT referring to the storage issues, I know optimisation and tight coding has very little to do with storage space. I was referring to the fact Carmack couldn't program his way out of paper bag. This game is going to suffer horrendous framerate issues on all three platforms. That is what ID does they are inefficent programmers, their games speak volumes for their ability, nothing but tech demos that run like crap on present hardware. I don't see this changing.

So perhaps you might want to read a person's comments next time before going off on one and going "blah blah you don't know blah blah blah"

[guerojose]

Thanks for clearing up the false impression created by your vaguely-worded comments. You are clearly not to be grouped in with the large number of commenters here clinging to the notion that compression & optimization are somehow a free lunch.

I now understand that you recognize that DVD has significant limitations - the key point of this entire discussion. Though I'm still unclear about at what point you feel that Carmack went from technical innovator to luddite. If he's never been able to code his way out of a paper bag, then how was he a technical innovator? Clearly you are NOT implying that this has anything to do with the fact that even the best coder in the world can only squeeze so much out of a DVD.

[Charmers]

The luddite comment I made was down to his attitude towards digital distribution. The fact he is not even going to entertain the idea shows how he has become a luddite. I personally love digital distribution (not counting EA's rip off effort), I love using steam and I want to buy my games that way. I do not want to have to wait for a DVD in the post or go into a store. I want to click a button buy the game then leave it overnight downloading so I can play it in the morning.

Now you may argue this game will be 20-30gbs in size so unfeasible for Digital distribution I say RUBBISH, that is barely 10% of my monthly download allowance. However I should be given the option of getting this how I want too. Since Carmack can't see past the glinting blu-ray disc I guess I won't bother getting the game.

[ScottEFresh]

LOL XBOX DOESN'T HAVE BLU-RAY...SOME DON'T EVEN HAVE A HARDDRIVE!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

[Viktor E]

your Avatar is hilarious LOL

[solsub]

So, Blu-Ray ia useful afterall...

[Fatmanp]

I have yet to see a multiplat game which is stunning look worse on the 360 because of compression.

[supergamer]

wow already at 465 comments

[Porkround]

I own both the 360 and PS3 and it was just a matter of time until we started seeing the limitations of a DVD format for gaming. So this really shouldn't come as a surprise to no one.

[Xi]

that the 360 has the superior hardware?

People seem to assum he means "easier to develop for" but then why didn't he say that the 360 has better sdk software and resources. It seems like this size thing is the only issue, and I honestly could care less, bunch of my game cube games came on 2 disks and it'd take just as long to swap discs as it would to load.

[Kyur4ThePain]

Here, I'll read it to you slowly...

Rage...Will...Look...Worse... on...360...Due...to...Compress ion

Got it?
Period. Done. Over with. Nothing about hardware, or ease of development.

Just:
Rage...Will...Look...Worse... on...360...Due...to...Compress ion

[wind_dragon]

HAHAHA! It wasn't long ago when ppl said Blu-ray would be useless. Oh how the mighty have fallen. But on a serious note, I kind of feel sorry for MS owners.

[PimpHandHappy]

maybe if the new xbox in 2009 can handle the games of the future i will buy it for 300 bucks

the list of 360 faults is huge

[KRUSSIDULL]

I saw a tech 5 demo video on IGN.com they were showing this game RAGE the game graphics is on par with Killzone 2 maybe even better you should check it out the delovoper also said PS3 version is a few months behind the others becuse they have difficulties with PS3 memomory that it had only 256MB RAM Avainable to program for he also said that tech 5 has 80 gig uncompresed data.

[Rapture333]

360's got the hd dvd addon... Why didnt M$ use that to there advantage? I mean hell PSP is using UMD why can't M$ use HD DVD for games!?!?! Does this not make PERFECT sense to anyone?

[PirateThom]

Because not everybody has the HD DVD drive, it runs slower than DVD and there's no standard HDD to fall back on...

Lots of reasons.

[Time_Is_On_My_Side]

That doesn't make sense becaue now you have to buy an add-on that doesn't even come with the console to play one game. It's like having manditory installs when not all XBOX 360s have bundled hard drives.

[Saigon]

i rember some time ago they stated the game was at around 36 gb without edits so this is no surprise...

i noticed a lot of people said for PS fan boys not to rub in the storage issue...but i say let them...because all the false crap that has been spread about the PS3...let them take their high road...

[PimpHandHappy]

well im just using a bubble because i havent posted anything

looks like the 360 is showing its age 3 years into its life cycle...sounds like someone needs to make a new system...

and just think when the 720 comes out they will be behind the PS3 by around 30million

hahahahaha

[DaTruth]

I said it first in the E3 ms announces ffVIII comments. PS3 fans aren't mad about 360 owners playing the game, They're worried about it getting dumbed down. Since it's releasing in Japan first, hopefully that won't be a problem.

[enjoi187]

who cares game wont be out till like 2011 ......who cares

[jahcure]

"who cares" I mean it's not like the x360 will even be supported by 2011

[ssbains]

Metal Gear Solid 4 anyone !!

The future for storage on XBOX 360 is limited, bigger, expansive games are just to costly so developers need to scale back their imagination to get their ideas to fit on 2 discs or go over to 50GB Bluray solution .... hmm.

[ForROME]

Nice, and the tide starts to turn, and this is just the tip of the iceberg over time the complaint will only grow, about half way through this gen in 2 years, the 360 will run flat, their head start will be laughed at and they will start to push their next sys out the door again to compete. The luxury of being first. Dam you MS seriously, I was the biggest Original Xbox fan to, 360 just left us with to much to think about. MS day in the sun is now ending and the PS3's star is rising.

[PSWe60]

lots of angry people here.
We all saw this coming, the 360 fanatics were just in denial

[Daxx]

So I herd you guyz liek mudkips?

[lagoonalight]

And who didn't know this already?

[ForROME]

Those Textures look amazing, 20GB in Textures certainly brings up the feeling of the game a couple of notches good work ID.

[xg-ei8ht]

Please stop saying the 360 is more powerful, The 360 is easier to work with because it follows traditional programming techniques
That's why alot prefer it.

[Frizzo]

that just goes to show how supirior bluray is in some cercumstances

[PimpHandHappy]

lol

[GameDev]

to watch this phenomenom called xbuttism, here is a corporation with SO MUCH money to throw around that all the real fanboys at heart at the end of the day bent right over and farted their common sense right out into the ether. Us real gamers saw the potential of the Ps3 from the start.
Unfortunately MANY MANY forums and websites seem to suffer from the same stupidity these MS fanboys do and actually try to silence PS3 owners for calling out dumbbots on their obvious ignorance.

go take your politically correct garbage and shove it where your boyfriend keeps his meat warm at night. THERE ARE smart and THERE ARE STUPID people in the world. ALL the bannings to the open zone WILL NOT CHANGE THAT FACT d1ckheads, get used to it.

[PimpHandHappy]

500+ comments

i wonder how many where 360's owners saying blueray reads slow

haha

[Allowen]

They need to put this article back to the front page of the N4G site were it belongs !

This discussion totaly OWNED all the talk about FF13 is no longer exclusive for the Ps3.

BTW when the price of blu-ray disc dropped that much(including production work) that it is now less expensive then 3 DVD9s ??

[rawd]

Sh1t im late for the party. Anyhow heres my comments

ahahahahahahaahahahahahahhaha hahhahahahahahahahahahha

[na2ru1]

more popcorns

[Wii60Fan]

So no biggie really.

[Shane Kim]

For some time to come I'll work as the Sony prophecy and I will encourage all you xbutts to convert to Sonyism as soon as possible since the Sony Gods (Kutaragi, Hirai and the most powerful of them all Stringer) will soon to unleash their wrath on infidels such as PoG and Jason 360. Just do as I did, convert to Sonyism before it's too late. I shall give you butts salvation.

[Bill Gates]

.
AHAHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHH AHAHHAHHAHHAA

I'm really beginning to suspect that the announcement that FF13 was coming to the 360 was all just a hype plot on M$'s part to keep the BABOONS happy because they know that the 360 is on its DEATH BED.

M$- Hey Square, will you take these few millions if you just come on our stage at E3 2008, and announce that FF13 is coming to the 360?

Square- What are you fu<king insane?

M$- No seriously, we need this. Please help us. You have to help us. You know we helped you make a few millions off of our BABOONS for sending those crap idea for games onto the 360.

Square- Alright fu<k it we'll do it. I'm sure no one intelligent and in their right mind will even think it's actually going to happen. But after this sh!t M$, you better believe that we're through, you got that?

M$- Yeah, yeah, sure whatever.

*M$, sigh of relief.
*The BABOONS by into the hype.
*Now this news.
*In the coming months Square announces they're canceling FF13 on the 360 due to compression issues.

....And the BABOONS the FU<KED over....AGAIN.
Wake up BABOONS......AAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHA HAHAHAHHHAA

[Cynical-Gamerzus]

That time has come where Media is in question!
The power of these number crunching power hungry computers need to be fed lots of data to create what it needs to create and have it on demand is important!!!
a singe DVD is not gonna be sufficient enough soon..

[Truplaya]

told you so, over 500 comments and none about the game, just fanboy arguements.

Gotta hate the people on this site if this is the most commented on news. All it is is flamebait and they just love it dont they.

WHO CARES?

[juuken]

Wow, it seems as if my smilie face vanished through a reportage.

You know why I smiled?

Because back in 2007, 360 owners made fun of PS3 owners, claiming that they had no games, bluray was only for movies, etc, etc, etc. Now that you have a major developer saying that the 360 will have compression issues, especially for Rage and Doom 4, one has to wonder who REALLY won the format war.

Like a few people have said, the 360 is now, the PS3 is the future. If Microsoft would have stopped being so arrogant and foolish, they would have been able to accommodate developers when it comes to space.

It's unfortunate that things had to come down to this.

And my bubbles are vanishing because people want to shut me up. Unfortunately, you won't shut me up that easily.

Keep it up.

[Allowen]

Another problem of having a game in multiple DVDs and also requiring installing all the discs on the HDD is that it raises a lot the chances of bugs or a scratch in one the discs to appear.

I remember havis this problem on computer games but then they started to use DVD and the problems brought by using many cds was over.
Now the same story restarted with but with dvd that is getting too old.
I bet in no time ppl will be able to buy ,for their PCs at least, the same game in one blu ray disc OR the still old fashion of multiple CDs that also raises the time of the installation of the game.

[josh14399]

suppose its true because i own mass effect on my 360 and it runs like crap. the game doesnt even look that good in the graphics department. i reckon if mass effect was on two discs it would run a lot better.

[Figboy]

because, for me, the superiority of a console isn't just based upon one or two aspects of the console (ie, just the GPU, or just the CPU). it's how ALL of those elements work together to bring about an entertaining, compelling gaming experience.

the 360 has a great GPU and a great CPU. unfortunately, the lack of two key components; a standard HDD, and a larger capacity disc hold them both back. because of this, the 360's GPU and CPU are "wasted," in that they can only do what the DVD allows them to do. you can only compress something so much before it starts to lose it's quality. can you imagine stuffing 20gigs of texture data into 7.5 gigs of space and retaining that quality? HOW?

as for the PS3, all of it's components are designed to WORK TOGETHER. the Blu Ray disc holds the large amounts of uncompressed texture data (and game code, obviously), RAM WOULD be an issue, if the Cell processor wasn't optimized for streaming data, and both the Cell and RSX didn't have over 25gigs bandwidth to utilize when streaming said data. it's been said numerous times that the Cell is a BEAST at crunching numbers (just see Folding@home, and the lab that's using a cluster of Cell processors to model a black hole).

the 6 available SPEs on the Cell can also do a lot of things that a dedicated GPU would normally do. physics, particles, post processing effects, etc can all be offloaded to the Cell's SPEs, as well as AI and other calculations. the cool thing is they can all be run in parallel of one another, instead of in order, like most PCs.

so the breakdown is thus:

Blu Ray holds the Data > the Cell and RSX work in tandem to process the data as fast as possible (in the Cell's case, VERY fast)> and the HDD is used when necessary to help speed up the above two processes.

the Playstation 3 is a system that doesn't step on it's own toes in terms of it's hardware. Blu Ray, the Cell, and the HDD work together, in tandem, to make the games function as smoothly as they do.

games like MGS4, Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank Future, etc, are examples of what happens when a dev understands this, and programs their games to work within that fine tuned system.

by this stage in the game, we shouldn't be questioning how powerful the PS3's hardware is, and what it's capable of, but questioning how devs will utilize those three core elements to make some fantastic games in the coming months/years.

also; the only thing i see the 360 doing extremely well at the moment is running Unreal Engine 3 based games, and, as we all know, most of the gaming community is getting a bit worn out by the dated engine. it's still an excellent engine, don't get me wrong, but it's most certainly feeling old. most games released this generation so far have used Unreal Engine 3, which is optimized for the 360, and, with Unreal Tournament 3 last December, has finally been coded to work properly on the PS3 as well.

tell me, what will happen if developers start to adopt the RAGE engine for making their next gen games, in the way they adopted the Unreal Engine 3 to develop their next gen games?

will the fact that RAGE engine games being compressed on the 360's DVDs be such a "small" thing if over half the industry is using that engine going forward?

developers are ALWAYS looking for the next big thing in game engines and development tools.

as their understanding of a particular architecture grows, the quality of games produced on that console grows.

in the 24+ years i've been a gamer, i've yet to see a gaming console where, over time, their games have actually gotten WORSE, instead of better.

unless Microsoft doesn't take measures to adapt the 360 (ie, let devs cache to the HDD, and lower licensing costs for more than 3 disc games), then they very well may be the first.

[dcbronco]

and the PS3 has so much bandwidth, how come all the installs.

[Mr_Potato_]

You're confused. Installs are a way to make the game load faster. Every PC game has an install because it makes the game load / play faster. It has NOTHING to do with the console or the hardware. (you can't install anything on a 360 arcade though)

What is so hard to understand with this ? Even MS now tries to copy Sony on installs and soon they'll come on 360 too (this fall)

It's just better this way.

[Light Yagami]

Where's dipsh*t Zhuk, Bloodmask and Bladestar? They're hiding with their tails between their legs just like L.

[shysun]

"LetdabodieshitdafloorLet dabodieshitdafloorLetdabodiesh itdafloooooor!"

[arngrim229]

why is everyone whining aslong as u can play the game and dont lose disc or get that gay 360 lazer burn u guys shud be happy, i mean u guys will get a worse looking compressed version but who cares?

heh imagine wat will happen with final fantasy 13 on 360

[UNCyrus]

I know MS charges royalties based on disk number, but does anyone know why? Is it because of the compression they use, or their copyrighted coding used to encrypt all 360 disks? I'm honestly curious... For all I know, there may be no good reason...

[FFXI101]

Isn't M$/360 going to(or already) come out 60gb system and they are actually going to have to install the game data on the HDD too?

The fact is that Blu-Ray has more storge space than dvd-9, so I don't know why would you or anyone say blu-ray is slow or sux than the format on 360, it just silly.

[Arsenal4Ever]

Blu-ray is so crap. Oh sorry this isn't 2006 it's 2008.

[josh3rdegree]

power shows what kinda person you are and microsoft just showed that you can call a console that is crap the best and make people think it is but really this just makes my point that there crap. sony on the other hand shoes that it cares about gammers and gives them the best even loseing money to do that microsoft would never do that.

you want a good console go with sony. microsoft = crap.sony = geat console.

[C_Dub]

Going PS3 on this one for sure. I love my 360 but even I know the DVD limitations would eventually become an issue. Any game that has to be severely compressed to fit onto one disc or split between multiples is just fail, I'm sorry. I remember having Gran Turismo 2 back in the day and hated how it was on two discs, so I only played the Simulation one. Thank god the DVD changed that for GT3 or I might not have even bothered getting a PS2 for it. but now the DVD is old tech and you think about MGS4 having to be cut (allegedly) to fit on a FIFTY gigabyte BD, it makes you wonder how long the DVD will last.

And finally there's this. Games looking worse due to lack of disc space.

[Ali_The_Brit]

Sony- FPS DOUG

Microsoft- Noobs

"BOOM. HEADSHOT!!!!"

[wangdiddy82]

Once the 360 pumps out games like uncharted, GT5, motorstorm, ratchet, and MGS4 we all know who has the superior hardware.. The only exclusive game on the 360 that looks good is gears but we already know this can easily be done on the ps3. And gears 2 is looking pretty out dated. It looks good but damn the unreal engine sucks..

Carmack says from id stand point the 360 hardwar is superior than the ps3. He also said the ps3 has a learning curve and most likely this is way he said this.. Thats there standpoint not everyone else's. But than he bashes the 360 hardware and dvd drive. Ps3 has just begun. Believe me ID will be singing a different tone next year about the ps3 hardware..

Devs will learn how to work with the ps3 hardware. Once they see killzone 2 and uncharted2, godw3, and gt5 they will all be like WTF!!!!!!!!

[tk]

Have an install option. Install high res textures to hard disk, and use low res texture where HD is not available.

[shysun]

Not all 360s have a hdd

[psgamer]

sorry to sound like a noob but how big (or small) is the difference between the game being compressed and uncompressed? Also, how will SE handle the 360 version?

[Ridrick]

< < < < < < < Thats proof.

[slave2Dcontroller]

You Figure that a single DVD9 has an average storage of 7.95GB. I guess they plan to use 2 DVD9's for the 360 version of RAGE which will be compressed. So I'm they would need to utilize anywhere from 3GB to 7GB on an additional 3rd DVD9 if they were to make an uncompressed 360 version the IP.

As for FF13-*sighs. SE has said that there will be no differnce between the PS3 and 360 versions. They(SE) were vague on how they would handle the storage matter for the 360 version. All I know is Square Enix originally said that Final Fantasy13 was only possible on the PS3. Now they say its going to be identical. So, I'm guessing SE is going to chop and water FF13 down as much as they need to in order to make them exactly the same.

[GUNS N SWORDS]

and will it look miles away from crysis? ( which by the way is on 1 DVD)

http://pc.ign.com/dor/objec...

http://pc.ign.com/dor/objec...

EDIT- (slave2Dcontroller) you do know that ff13 still looks the same and that it was running on a pc all along ,right, as for watering down, ps3 didn't seem to need 360's help to make haze and mgs4 hit sub hd (i demand someone to have the balls to explain the reasons for that),

also mgs4 didn't even turned out the same as did look back in 05 and 06.....any reasons for that?

[Figboy]

one DVD filled with ZIP files that are extracted and installed to a hard drive.

besides, the guys at id said that installing to the HDD for RAGE wouldn't help the 360 either:

http://kotaku.com/5031985/r...

lol. i also love how kotaku tries to downplay the whole thing.

more than one dev has stated concerns about DVD space limitations, not all of them Playstation 3 developers (even Bioware, before Mass Effect came out were saying they were working around the limitations of DVD).

this may be just one game, but i do wonder what would happen if this RAGE engine becomes the next big thing in game engines. THEN WHAT will the 360 do?

multiple discs isn't really the concern here. like i said in my above posts, the worry is that the data PER DISC will be compressed all to hell and lose texture fidelity. that has ALWAYS been my worry when i first learned the 360 was still using DVDs way back before it launched.

2009 is going to be an interesting year. the years beyond even moreso.

what a difference a year makes.

oh yeah, i should be smacked for referencing kotaku. they aren't my favorite site in any way, shape or form, as i find their "journalism" deplorable, but it's the only place i could find direct quotes Carmack and the rest of id.

[slave2Dcontroller]

sucked ass. As for MGS4, its a master piece and you know it, so chill on the fanboy sub-stupidity. Kojima intentioanlly made the game with sort of a visual grain to set the atmosphere and it work well. I couldnt even Imagine MGS4 looking all slick and shiny.

Anyways I hope your right I guess you get the impression that I'm against FF13 coming to 360, Dude, I'm not. I just hope it isnt going to get scaled down. Its a valid concern.

[Cynical-Gamerzus]

Cyrisi still not impressive!!
Im playing it right now!

Im Sorry on a 1080 47 inch
a PS3 running Uncharted or GT 5
or MGS 4
look far more capable then Crysis ever will.Thats just the nature of PS3 technology developers with money and time and BLuray storage,can easily outclass a PC FPS game!!!!

[SmokingMonkey]

they are 3rd party developers

ask why HALO3 is sub hd

[smurfie4]

Where are the people now who thought that blue-ray was irrelevant? I bet theyre slitting their wrists. Just remember to do cut vertically. It has been said for a while now that blue-ray=more content & better quality. Now have a big cup of truth, a bite of reality, and a slice of stfu.

[dcbronco]

2, maybe 3. That being the case is it worth the $150 extra Blu-ray adds to the cost of the console. I don't think so. MS will pick up the cost for the third disc. It's not that big of a deal. Still a lot cheaper than adding Blu-ray. And for all the Sony fanboys who believe they can trust Carmack(I do myself), he also believes the PS3 is only slightly more powerful than the 360. He also believes the ease of use of the 360 makes it a better console.

[SpartanZero]

The 360 version will be better, watch, it just will, microsoft will come up with something, just watch.

[TheColbertinator]

Microsoft is'nt spearheading Rage,its ID.You know,the most seasoned veterans of the FPS market.There would no shooters today without Carmack.If he says there is a problem with your hardware or storage,you better believe its serious.

[xg-ei8ht]

And i believe usa landed on the moon.
(err. not)

[MetalProxy]

I seen this coming from a mile away..now its time to "Do the Dance, Do the Daaance" on top of old formats (DVD9).

[eagle21]

What is the future for 360? Seriously, the type of fanbase they have feeds on these technical things. With 3rd party games like Burnout Paradise, COD 4, Oblivion, GTA IV, DMC4, etc. we see PS3 being better in graphics. So imagine when developers refuse to dumb down the PS3 version for 360. This is a big deal.

[TheColbertinator]

Another battle won by the Sony fans.I wonder if these are temporary V's or will fill this year up.Oh well

Colbert

[memots]

Sony looking better and better. with that one year wait the better value for your money.

Blue-Ray
Wireless integrated.
Hard Drive in all ps3.
Bluetooth .
Better backward compatibility.

Only one year ahead, and with the numbers of hardware failure that 360 are getting MS is looking dumber and dumber as the month are passing.

Don't get me wrong i do like my 360 but i really don't think that MS was smart rushing that hardware.

RockBand Fan?
visit www.deathbyrhythm.com

[dcbronco]

Needing Blu-ray for 3 games was not worth the $150 price tag and the 1 year delay.

[CrizzleC24]

is the Xbox version will probably still win the comparison.

Think of this before you just bark and drool at this article...

For instance 42kb can be zipped to 4.5 petabytes....

http://www.ghacks.net/2008/...

or if you really want to feel stupid, just look at this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

If thats what can be done with 97kb, lets go ahead and do the math eh?

Also lets not forget a certain game that needed four discs on the playstation....oops! I bet you wanted me to forget about that eh?

Yes it will be harder to make the 360 version, but will it be much easier developing for the Ps3 either?

The Blu-ray's disc size will be helpful for uncompressed files, which will lead to better textures in bmp format versus jpg.

What the extra space wont do for the Ps3 version is make it longer. Most games (sadly) are 10 hours long these days.

The same who think its impossible to compress a game like Shadow of the Collosus or God of War 2 condemned the fate of the 360's disc size or potential to compression.

Lets use or brains this time eh?(not Canadian despite all the lame "ehs")

OH WAIT EVEN BETTER!!! here's a game that fits in 182 kb!!!(but the graphics are so horrible I bet you can play it in full detail)

http://www.theprodukkt.com/...

If you think low disc space equals bad graphics, try this game(demo) and come back to me....

[xtreampro]

all day long i've been reading every single FREAKING comment on this article and it BEEN A BLAST, i've LMAO through reading every comment on 'openzone', but i gotta say one thing, and thats the XBUTT'', Lemmings or 'BOTS' as some say have all been TOTALY DEMOLISHED, DESTROYED, TRASHED, BASHED, DISSED, ANIALATED, EATEN ALIVE, BERRIED HAHAHAHHHahhaAHHAHAHA!!, we rinsed you bots today, i think this will be a clasical day on N4G, ''N4G/POG's Day Of Regret'' (mainly POG cus his the BIGGEST ASS WIPE LOL!), and judgening from the comments, there are more PS3 owners and surpporters then the 360 fans, normaly those who know my usuale ways, i normaly wait till all you xbutts have done the talking, and then a i come in late with a whole Esay of disses completly trashing the xbutt babies, but today i aint gonna do that, cus i think nearly every PS3 fan has come, posted a comment and completly trampled all over the Blow UP Box and its followers,.....so to the xbutts ---> 'GOOD NIGHT AND I HOPE THE BED BUGS BITE cianora SUCKERS!

[fufotrufo]

bottom line here folks

Ps3 fans just seem to ignore the most important part of the whole article...xbox 360 hardware is superior and wangdiddy can see the future also he is a better game developer than carmack

[joeynox]

if this is a pc game how many disc will it be on for the pc? if its coming in 2011 will pc's have bluray drives or something else? hmmmm Something to ponder... Seriously does anyony have the pc info for this. Doom4 is supposed to look even better and need 2 the hardware power so what medium is that gonna be on .Also how much worser is it really going to look?Not much .Its just the word "worst" that makes it sound so bad. If he would of said not as good or has les polys would this be that much of an issue.The compression isnt going to hurt the quality that much.

[joeynox]

" Sony looking better and better. with that one year wait the better value for your money.

Blue-Ray
Wireless integrated.
Hard Drive in all ps3.
Bluetooth .
Better backward compatibility. "

1- yes bluray is nice but its still not a necessity.
2- Wireless gaming is foolish "free is nice" most people wouldnt use it
3-Harddrive is a great thing
4-bluetooth is not needed
5-Backward Comp your on crack.360 has better BC

[BlueRevolvuR]

over 500 comments so far...

[VMAN_01]

If you have the 80gb, 60gb PAL or 60gb NTSC it murders 360s BC and Sony are still improving BC unlike M$

[qwertyuiopasdfghjkl]

The video game industry needs to be reborn. These constant console regressions are starting to get on my nerves. Honestly, we as the consumer need to rise up and demand better from anyone and everyone that has a part in the gaming industry.

the Nintendo Wii's gimmick might still be snagging more and more people each day, but those of us wanting more out of the system are shafted.

Microsoft's aggressive and speedy release put a 360 in our homes fairly quickly, but at what cost to us, the consumer? Systems overheating, DVD drives breaking, disks scratched, etc etc. These faults are the biggest reason why everything the 360 does so great, makes the system overall, fall flat on its face.

Sony's PS3 in its infancy, could be described as the system that does it all. After its release, we now see the complications, system updates, system updates, system updates, lower resolution games, online gaming still has some kinks to work out, and the system itself is still being called "expensive".

Something to think about... What if any one of the three consoles was never released?

What if the Wii never saw the light of day? Obviously Nintendo would either A. Focus more on the handheld market, getting their new small device into the hands of as many human beings as possible. Or B. They could simply become a developing powerhouse. Creating the best casual games for one or both the 360/PS3.

I like to think about Microsoft the most... because THEY DO NOT FIT INTO THE GAMING BUSINESS. With no 360, would initial 360 software geniuses redirect project fields, and actually make Vista kick A$$? Would Microsoft really re-invent the PC gaming platform? So many questions and plausible answers rattle my brain. With Microsoft now making the PC gaming experience better, their enemy would still be Sony and the PS3. One thing is for sure, without the 360, gaming in general would be much more unified.

Without the release of the PS3, Sony would focus on the PSP and the Ericsson phones. And without the urge to compete with Microsoft and the 360, they would design something so out there and futuristic, surprising everyone the most revolutionary electronic device... in 2010.

Seriously though, Console gaming can never be taken seriously. It's a medium geared towards children. Nothing is going to be "standard", as great as that would be, it will never happen until people stop settling for below average.

- Jake Sanford

[solidt12]

Go sit in your corner!

[Egzekutor]

You are starting to see PS3 as being a lead platform in some games, and you will see that more often. Developers will soon quit releasing on the XBOX 360 (im talking about real AAA titles) who wants games that are as short as GTA IV ..

[deadie]

DVD is so nineties ;)

[DFresh]

This proves the statement Sony has been saying all along and media.
360 is the now and PS3 is the future!
Carmack did give a statement saying 360 games are better for games but when in fact he just got pwned by his own work to see that PS3 is his console of choice to make bigger and better games.

[PSWe60]

"For me to Poop on!!!!!!"

[Alcohog]

Why are these articles back at the top?! N4G glitch?